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holly

GC2 Action .

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18 minutes ago, holly said:

You cannot get the consistency out of a normal reg in cold weather ??? HOLLY

 

Any you can with the GC2 in cold weather, really?  :rolleyes:

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Do you want me to piccy a GC2 reg.

Its a switch like any of the other 3 regs commonly copied ie McGraw, Dawes and Alcock all from 1983 credit where its due not to the thieves.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, holly said:

You cannot get the consistency out of a normal reg in cold weather ??? HOLLY

Or in any weather? Does anyone have a rifle with a normal regulator where the pressure at the output of the regulator stays absolutely constant over the whole shot count? I suspect that there is always a slight fall in the regulator pressure. But if there is a perfect normal regulator out there I would like to know how it works. The best solution I have seen is two regulators in series, but this only reduces the pressure drop it does not eliminate it.

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Just now, Jon said:

Do you want me to piccy a GC2 reg.

Its a switch like any of the other 3 regs commonly copied ie McGraw, Dawes and Alcock all from 1983 credit where its due not to the thieves.

 

 

 

 

Does it, or the others, have the feature referred to in the Cardew Patent, namely the air feed via a screw thread to throttle the flow of air to the regulator. This is what would make it so consistent. I don’t know about the three other regs, do you have links to mechanical details?

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The 3 other regs, two of which are the same as marketed by individuals and large compaies worldwide. Only the Alcocks not copied (tell a lie it was) as its air operated.

 

Valves still got to shut off however the restriction if at all any to the flow, makes no odds except takes excessively long to do so.

 

No reg ever made will have a constant output throughout the charge. Good ones are 2bar and one of the reasons i wont push Anchutz any more after seeing many with 16bar fluctuation and having to put it right- everything perfect.

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My GC2 would only drop 10 feet per second summer to winter . two clicks on my lupe . my shutz and my steyr will do that going under a tree on a sunny day ??? HOLLY

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1 hour ago, Jon said:

 

 

Valves still got to shut off however the restriction if at all any to the flow, makes no odds except takes excessively long to do so.

 

I wonder if that is true and would like to experiment with that. If you ignore the flow through the regulator the valve should always shut at the same pressure since the pressure is balanced by the area of the piston and the opening force of the spring, which stay constant. But when there is a flow through the regulator there is also a pressure drop across the valve which upsets the balance and introduces a variable force that affects the closing of the valve. So by throttling the flow the closing pressure should become more consistent.  The problem, or possibly the solution is that this will only work with a dump valve.

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Got hankering for a GC2 again looking hopefully for a mk3 preferably a steel or stainless Carbine version 

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Gary personally since a lot of the MK111 s . have the polygon barrel . i would not bother . i have had three MK 111s and all of em were pellet fussy . to the point that i never found a pellet they liked . which is why i no longer have em . including a scimitar . get a MK11 with a MK 111 bleed valve .  preferably with a john welham stock .i think they only mad a couple of stainless models . Luck ??? HOLLY

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4 hours ago, sportsmatch said:

Got hankering for a GC2 again looking hopefully for a mk3 preferably a steel or stainless Carbine version 

 

Alloys are good just as long as you respect them when filling, hello Tom?  :rolleyes:

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10 hours ago, tonybubb said:

I wonder if that is true and would like to experiment with that. If you ignore the flow through the regulator the valve should always shut at the same pressure since the pressure is balanced by the area of the piston and the opening force of the spring, which stay constant. But when there is a flow through the regulator there is also a pressure drop across the valve which upsets the balance and introduces a variable force that affects the closing of the valve. So by throttling the flow the closing pressure should become more consistent.  The problem, or possibly the solution is that this will only work with a dump valve.

I have just seen a post on John Bowkett’s FB page that says that throttling with a screw thread is a technique also used with regulators for hammer actions. I suppose that it is a matter of how much throttling is needed. 

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3 hours ago, Eaton Rifles said:

 

Alloys are good just as long as you respect them when filling, hello Tom?  :rolleyes:

Its ok I have had a few alloy actions in the past I just wish I still had the mk3 still carbine action 

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Theyre a copy of the Dawes Tony remember seeing him in 93 dismissing regs as no good.

 

Experimented way before Bowket copied the same regs, some didnt even need a return spring! Current rifle No2 made in 93 i dragged out a couple of months back still on same o rings for shut off valve and piston 3 years before.

 

Same all year round rain, sleet or shine often shot down to -6 back then to +95. No leaks and untouched since so should still be the same.
Before the valve break 5 days before the 2005 Worlds it used to do same power any pellet within 8ft/sec and only know of 8 rifles ever done that did so 5 of which were mine.

 

 

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Throttling the feed will work on any reg inlet, some worse some better, just depends on how its made.

Other problem is the air temp generated as it goes through the threaded constriction, not many producers do it.

 

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23 hours ago, holly said:

You cannot get the consistency out of a normal reg in cold weather ??? HOLLY


nonsense

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1 hour ago, robF said:


nonsense

Quite agree Rob.

 

My Ripley gives me with about 10fps the same Summer and Winter. 

 

Its just me that's screwing it all up. 

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35 minutes ago, AndyIoW said:

Quite agree Rob.

 

My Ripley gives me with about 10fps the same Summer and Winter. 

 

Its just me that's screwing it all up. 

 

True ??? HOLLY:Spike

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2 hours ago, robF said:


nonsense

 

What year did Walther win the worlds Rob ??? HOLLY

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17 hours ago, Jon said:

Throttling the feed will work on any reg inlet, some worse some better, just depends on how its made.

Other problem is the air temp generated as it goes through the threaded constriction, not many producers do it.

 

If the air flows through the thread while the hammer valve is open then it must be moving fast. If the thread is only used for very slow filling of a dump valve between shots there should be no temperature rise. There should also be negligible pressure drop across the regulator valve.

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13 hours ago, holly said:

 

What year did Walther win the worlds Rob ??? HOLLY


By your logic only a GC2 could have then... but I don't remember one even coming in the top 50 in the last decade since this thread was started.

 

 



For what it's worth, Mr Ayres was 2 points off winning in Germany having lost 2 shots in his last lane cross shooting it. I don't think you can put that down to a reg.

Most summer winter issues are nothing to do with the reg anyway.





 

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Rob what you are saying then is that Walther have never Won  a worlds ? Sportsmatch have won two . by your lights that makes them a failure . my point with the GC2 was that the rifle unlike a lot of others is worth a second chance in production with a few small updates ??? HOLLY

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No what I am saying is that it's nonsense the GC2 is the only consistent reg in cold weather. It's also nonsense about your reference to the worlds because that's run in summer. It's also nonsense that the Walther hasn't been up there because it has apart from the worlds it's won everything else, and unlike the GC2 it has done it in living memory. And if the GC2 was worth a re-release those chaps that like to make money would surely put it out there, to make money.

The simple fact is that as lovely as they are the GC2's have been surpassed. You must agree or else you wouldn't have been trying every other rifle under the sun (except a Walther) since...

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Holls, without a doubt the GC2 was the Sharps Rifle of it's day, unfortunately things have moved on and now we have AI Rifles and accuracy that would be totally alien to shooters of that era.

Just face it, the GC is very much a part of FT history, it's too complicated, too expensive to maintain and too lacking in the trigger department to be considered viable anymore and this comes from someone who has never owned one but hankered after one back in the day like a dog after a bone.

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If i agreed rob . i would have sold my GC2 and bought something else . i bought a steyr as it is very cheap and easy to maintain . over here and on a pension , that matters .  is it as good as my old GC2 , no it is not . besides there is not i don't think a walther out there that has not been altered  , tuned , fiddled with . how can a rifle that stays within ten feet per second . summer and winter be out of date . all they need is a up to date shooter behind one to win . ??? HOLLY

 

PS i wish i had won the lottery and bought out the rights years ago . 

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10 hours ago, tonybubb said:

If the air flows through the thread while the hammer valve is open then it must be moving fast. Air will find its way any where. Considering the dump valve is sealed off for firing and empty after, explains why activating the plunger against reg pressure is much harder than low on air, same with trigger gets harder like a Sharp Innova and a few others made in the 1600's, nothing new.

 

If the thread is only used for very slow filling of a dump valve between shots there should be no temperature rise. There should also be negligible pressure drop across the regulator valve. What happens when you top up a cylinder, it gets hot.
Will be a drop due to activating the plunger (as in any other knock open valve), thats when the regs working and why it takes so long to filter through.

Besides  done many tests decades ago constricting the flow, shows up deficiencies in valve, spring(s) and piston not necessarilly tolerances. Even Anchutz aint worked that out Pete on here will confirm, yet same copy of a Dawes reg as designed and made in 1983 though Walther did crack it to an extent.

 

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58 minutes ago, holly said:

PS i wish i had won the lottery and bought out the rights years ago . 

How much do you reckon it would cost to produce, assemble, setup, market excluding distribution and shops that would add another 60%+. Reckon £2200 action only 10 units at a time plus any distribution etc takes it up to £3520+ each.

Fairly sure an action was £900 by 1993 and not worth while when others retailed around the £400-600 mark and still being produced with no R&D involved.

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As said jon , if i won the lottery EG 25 million or so . i would have an update on the GC2  . then get the work done , say  five hundred units . CNC would sort that out in no time .. action only . sponsor a couple of the best shots with em . give em a car for a year . all in . if they win the Gp series . they keep the car . £500 a GP win . i think i might find a couple of good shots to use em . don't you Jon ? . everybody loves a winner . look how the 9015s have taken off . HOLLY

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Yes the GC2 is an old school rifle with an outdated trigger same as the Ripley and takes a little more concentrated effort to shot well compared to the modern steyr,s anschutz etc. But I’m looking for another nice GC2 I shot one for 10 years many years ago before it need a service to sort out a problem, that is better than the 9015 which didn’t last 10 months 

 

would have another GC2 tomorrow if I can find a nice one, the 9015 no thanks 

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Trouble is Gary the collectors have got most of the good ones nowadays . stick a wanted on the STB or the BBS . ??? HOLLY

 

PS what about Dale down in cornwall or that collector  ooop north who was selling a dozen . a while a go . could do a search on the BBS , where he advertising em .

 

PSS Jay has got a welham stocked ( posh one ) Scimitar . could try him .

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11 hours ago, Jon said:

Besides  done many tests decades ago constricting the flow, shows up deficiencies in valve, spring(s) and piston not necessarilly tolerances. Even Anchutz aint worked that out Pete on here will confirm, yet same copy of a Dawes reg as designed and made in 1983 though Walther did crack it to an extent.

 

I am not defending the original construction of the GC2 and I am not suggesting that it should be reintroduced or copied. I just believe that, like the Sharp Innova, it was a stepping stone or a signpost pointing the way for further development. Having spent a lifetime as a Patent Attorney in general practise perhaps my brain may be more trained to see these signposts and usually the expected development follows, but not in this case. At first I thought that the Chinese Huben K1 was such but it seems that it is still inconsistent due to its reliance on regulators to act as pressure valves.

I am not a RFD or a gunsmith, just a hobby tinkerer with a model engineering workshop and a little time to play with new ideas.

The Sharp  Innova was my first pneumatic rifle and I was so impressed that I wanted to make something similar but without the disadvantages. After several efforts I am still trying to improve on what I have done so far. I have in my head another new design which, in theory, is the answer to everything. Some of the building blocks I have made for other reasons and I know to work, but with limited workshop time it may be a while before I can prove anything.

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