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holly

The Regional Finals

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Well the winter is almost through and the last part of it is the regional finals at newbury . the boys are looking forward to it as usual . although some see little in it . it should be remembered that the average winter league shot sees it as the pinnacle of his shooting year . yep should be good ??? HOLLY

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And here are the results

 

nefta

mfta

Sefta

Csfta

NWFTA

Wafta

FFTA

Swefta

Sarpa

 

 

if it were best 6, maybe 8 counting scores it would make it more interesting but the fact is only two regions have 1o top quality AA shooters who will put in high scores, unless there is absolulty no wind?

However with Calpin helping to put the course out i am expecting a fair share of elevated shots and thus plenty of wind, Holly is going after all!

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And then it would be the top five , after that the top two and so on . it is a team shoot for a region to win . think bigger pie man . outside we are gonna win a prize . this is about the futurte of the sport at grass roots level . the fellas qualifying get there first good dose of the big time FT wise and some are hooked so they go on to the GPs. this is what it is all about . not Nefta winning it .i dunno about your lads , but our fellas think it is an honour to be chosen and they actually ENJOY it ??? HOLLY

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And here are the results

 

nefta

mfta

Sefta

Csfta

NWFTA

Wafta

FFTA

Swefta

Sarpa

 

 

if it were best 6, maybe 8 counting scores it would make it more interesting but the fact is only two regions have 1o top quality AA shooters who will put in high scores, unless there is absolulty no wind?

However with Calpin helping to put the course out i am expecting a fair share of elevated shots and thus plenty of wind, Holly is going after all!

 

As shown with past results, team size makes no difference to the order of finishing. Take the top 5, 8 and do the sums Si.

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As shown with past results, team size makes no difference to the order of finishing. Take the top 5, 8 and do the sums Si.

 

 

Mfta would have won last year on a 6 man score, but its the fact that other regions have a better chance of winning and the scores would be tighter.

Apart from swefta and sarpa, i think all regions can field a strong 6 score side, but only mfta and nefta can field 10.

Two horse race.

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And then it would be the top five , after that the top two and so on . it is a team shoot for a region to win . think bigger pie man . outside we are gonna win a prize . this is about the futurte of the sport at grass roots level . the fellas qualifying get there first good dose of the big time FT wise and some are hooked so they go on to the GPs. this is what it is all about . not Nefta winning it .i dunno about your lads , but our fellas think it is an honour to be chosen and they actually ENJOY it ??? HOLLY

 

 

It was mooted that if it had been an 8 scoring team event my proposal would have got through at agm. Still a 15 man team but where as now you are saying to 5 of your regions shooters thanks for spending the time and money to come, your score is not good enough to count, you would be saying it to 9, maybe 7. not much difference really

I was working on 3 in a car though not 4, thinking of those that travel from Scotland and Swefta for example who struggle to find 10 that want to go let alone 15!

In todays climate holly i think most think of costs, some regionas may have shooters that fight for their places, though given regional winter shoot numbers thats only Mfta and nefta in my book, the other regions are lucky to get 30 shooters at an event.

Sorry i dont see the inters as anything else than a two horse race as regards a competion.

 

How many of the SEFTa or CSFTA shooters will tracvel to Nefta next year if it goes there? That is presuming your region does not fund transport costs?

 

The future of the sport is regional summer (or winter) shoots where to coin one of your sayings, "one easy one hard a lane" or there abouts is whats needed.

Sundays shoot at Target Ft was too easy, 22 ish yard average over 40 targets. Probably 12-20 whistles, enough that you lost count, but given most hit over half and many over 30 of the tagets, everyone of the 28 entries enjoyed the day. Few new shooters who enjoyed it and want to come back for more.

Our team is chosen on who turned up the most between Octb - Feb, then results!

So we have some of our better shooters not in the side because they could not afford to travel that much over the winter

 

.

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The fact that you cannot win the regionals seems to bother you , why . it is a team shoot .getting into the team and shooting together is the main reason to do this comp . if money is a problem , put some money from each winter league into the pot to help with the costs of getting to the comp .i think our lads are keen enough to go ooop north to next years comp . we will see ??? HOLLY

Edited by holly

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Bit more of a sporting chance really holly, thats all. Perhaps I`m not really a team player, maybe thats why i was better at Ft as a young lad than rugby football? i like the fact that results in Ft come from me and nothing else

We have grades so its level (ish) in individual comps, But as it is the format suits two of the 9 regions more than most.

 

I for some resosn thaught that wafta did contrabute to costs, but apparently they dont.! Swefta do! something for the Next Wafta meeting perhaps, especially if the comp goes north? Personally i would like to see it go around the regions, bit like the Home internationals used too.

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OK about the notion of introducing new players to the national scene. But those of us who have shot the inters for ten years or more, and still have an ounce or two of competitive spirit left in our ageing bodies don't actually look forward to a 300 to 400 mile round trip to shoot 40 pellets, regardless of help with travel costs, if you know all along you have no hope of being among the top two.

 

I've become quite disenchanted with the Inters, sadly. The format is tedious. Somebody has to be in squad 15 and they don't get to shoot till maybe 2pm, having had to be there by around 0900. Five hours trying to avoid the burger van is a strenuous task. I've lost count of how many times I've arrived at a lane to find the stopwatch flashing in set-up mode and it's abundantly clear that the previous shooters were paying lip service only to lane timing. Is that the kind of image that we want the excited new players to latch on to?

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Simon , you have your sporting chance on the saturday. to win glory for your region as top dog . sunday is the boys day . 15 of the best shots in your region fight it out with the rest of the regions to be top dog . that is how it is and i hope personally that is how it stays . when i was SEFTA comp sec , i used to spend £ 700 on prizes for the winter league and team gear . that money could be used to hire a coach or given out as fuel money . rich . we used to in SEFTA give a time for shooters to get to the ground . morning or afternoon . the comp sec gives out the cards , so he can arange what time to get there . personally i used to give the best shots the early numbers , cos there is usually less wind early on . can still remember shooting it for the first time , scoring a rather sad 25 .but we won it that year , not due to my efforts . but the memory lives with me still of standing with my team mates for the prize giving . have not won much since , but i still love it ??? HOLLY

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Mfta would have won last year on a 6 man score, but its the fact that other regions have a better chance of winning and the scores would be tighter.

Apart from swefta and sarpa, i think all regions can field a strong 6 score side, but only mfta and nefta can field 10.

Two horse race.

 

Si, you're missing the point. It's always going to be tighter with less shooters. But the margin between them is related to the team size. So it doesn't matter. If 6 shots separate the teams rather than 10 that's still 1 shot per man per 6 shooter team that needs to be found. The results will be the same. The regions with the stronger shooters will win. And that tends to be NEFTA and MFTA because they are the larger regions.

 

It's a test of strength of a region. If the weaker regions had more stronger shooters, they'd do better. MFTA and NEFTA's strength reflects their numbers in winter and regional leages. Both of them have 100+ in their regional leagues. You'd have to thin it down to 2-3 shooters to equate with the strength of other regions, and even then some would struggle because they don't have 2-3 shooters of the strength that other regions could field. Pick the top 3 of MFTA and NEFTA. Ozzy, Fisher and Gillott... Calpin, Daniels and Semmens. Now Wafta may do well against them, but it's not going to flatten the field entirely.

 

I dont think you have to be there at 9? Unless you are shooting first, if the team is organised you know some can shoot later. As to the watch, it's buddy marshalled and you shoot against another region. If a partner is daft enough not to time then a) they are doing the opposition a favour it seems and b) they run the risk of being picked up by a marshall.

 

I know of one swefta shooter who hasn't even been asked if he wants to attend.

 

CSFTA will be there... looking for SEFTA scalps and trying to not get scalped by other regions. :D

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Well said there Rob .oh by the way we are gonna rip your Central hearts out ??? HOLLY

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Simon , you have your sporting chance on the saturday. to win glory for your region as top dog

 

sunday is the boys day . 15 of the best shots in your region fight it out with the rest of the regions to be top dog . that is how it is and i hope personally that is how it stays .

??? HOLLY

 

Its whoever turns up in our regions and some others, cetainly not the 15 top shots.

 

Based on current bfta grades

 

Nefta 2013 team

15 man av % = 88.7

10 man Av % = 90.4

6 man av % = 91.6

 

Wafta 2013

15 man av % = 80.9

10 man Av % = 84.7

6 man Av % = 88.6

 

Least we in theory would be closer with 6 man and that for me would make it more of a competion that a team has a chance of winning.

 

As long as I beat Fisher on the Saturday, nothing else matters on the two horse weekend.

 

Me and fisher being Shires horses lol

Edited by Piemanlarger

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Its whoever turns up in our regions and some others, cetainly not the 15 top shots.

 

Based on current bfta grades

 

Nefta 2013 team

15 man av % = 88.7

10 man Av % = 90.4

6 man av % = 91.6

 

Wafta 2013

15 man av % = 80.9

10 man Av % = 84.7

6 man Av % = 88.6

 

Least we in theory would be closer with 6 man and that for me would make it more of a competion that a team has a chance of winning.

 

As long as I beat Fisher on the Saturday, nothing else matters on the two horse weekend.

 

Me and fisher being Shires horses lol

 

Si, ever heard the expression an inch is as good as a mile?

 

Yes, you will be closer. But even then you're, in theory, behind. It doesn't matter then does it, the places will likely still be the same.

 

http://www.thebfta.net/2011-11-29-14-50-29/2012-09-25-13-01-28/bfta-2011-british-championships-and-inter-regionals

 

Look at the top 20. Then see how many are not MFTA and NEFTA shooters. That wouldn't change would it?

 

http://www.thebfta.net/2011-11-29-14-50-29/2012-09-25-15-23-57/bfta-2012-inter-regionals

 

Same deal again.

 

The only way of changing it is to get more strength in the region. If you have a region where only a fraction make it out onto the circuit then it's likely to be weaker, and if you drop it so that it matches the weakest you'll still be up against the top of the very strong regions.

 

If you drop it to 6, then you have a shoot of just 54 shooters. The reason the Homes was dropped was because with a max of 45 shooters it was a lot of effort to put on for the very same result. EFTA, WAFTA then SARPA.

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Well said there Rob .oh by the way we are gonna rip your Central hearts out ??? HOLLY

 

I'd prefer that than 1 target :D

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So ,generaly speaking size doesnt matter??

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SIZE .Speak for your self dave , speak for your self ??? HOLLY

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If two shooters collude and choose not to time each other then they both potentially benefit, and they are both looking to maybe enhance the chances for their own regions, even uniting against a common foe..........(!). I don't like it, but I've seen it time and again. I'm not buddying the pair in front of me, is it up to me to challenge them?

 

Re the start time, maybe it's altered but it used to be the case when Roger Moy was chairing that he wanted you there to hear his briefing before any shooting started.

 

Getting 135 people through in 15 squads is a slow process, inevitably. Maybe a break from tradition (heaven help us for such heresy :sign_respect1: ) and make it one target per lane, that is, 40 shooting positions. With 40 people shooting at any one time instead of 20 it should speed things up.

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Rich are you sure your name is not castro ? cos you certainly are a revolutionary ??? HOLLY

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Si,

If you drop it to 6, then you have a shoot of just 54 shooters..

 

 

no, rob, i have never proposed the number of the team be cut, i proposed the number of counting scores be cut.

The "top 6" in wafta on current grades would almost match on % terms the top 6 in nefta, that would give us a much better chance of winning.

 

see what happens at next egm?

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no, rob, i have never proposed the number of the team be cut, i proposed the number of counting scores be cut.

The "top 6" in wafta on current grades would almost match on % terms the top 6 in nefta, that would give us a much better chance of winning.

 

see what happens at next egm?

 

 

no, rob, i have never proposed the number of the team be cut, i proposed the number of counting scores be cut.

The "top 6" in wafta on current grades would almost match on % terms the top 6 in nefta, that would give us a much better chance of winning.

 

see what happens at next egm?

 

 

no, rob, i have never proposed the number of the team be cut, i proposed the number of counting scores be cut.

The "top 6" in wafta on current grades would almost match on % terms the top 6 in nefta, that would give us a much better chance of winning.

 

see what happens at next egm?

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Then nothing changes si. The best 6 from 15 does nothing if the region doesn't have a strong 6 or indeed can't field 15 to start with.

I know you want to change it to stand a chance of WAFTA winning but how would it help Swefta were the regional team represents 50% of the regions shooters?

I think you may have to wait until an Agm.

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Rich it doesn't speed things up, it just allows more on the course. Nothing wrong with trying it but I'm not sure the majority would agree to an experiment.

I've always treated it as a days event. But then I understand there are many with a long way to travel.

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Yes it does speed it up. How do you suppose the HFT guys get so many taking part on one day? They only shoot one target per peg.

 

Think about a course like North Petherwin with four targets per lane. Doesn't that slow things down? Last year we had folk waiting several minutes, I mean like 20 minutes, to get access to the next lane. And that was with about 40 or so taking part.

 

SWEFTA's regular pool of shooters now numbers 58 on the start sheets of whom normally 40 or so turn up, with something like 40 names that take part in HFT, partly drawn from the same set of course.

 

Holly I'm not called Castro but sometimes called an inveterate Fideler. Thanks for the compliment by the way, independently minded and not ashamed to be so.

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1 target per lane. 1 min per lane. 2 shooters. Takes the squad 2 mins shooting time per lane. 40 lanes. 80 mins to complete.

 

2 targets per lane. 2 mins per lane. 2 shooters. Takes the squad 4 mins per lane. 20 lanes. 80 minutes.

 

Granted there could be some slack either way because of getting in an out of lanes and eye before scope. Could be faster or slower. But in terms of maxing out the clock. No difference.

 

Hft shooters tend to shoot faster. But they have run into long shoots on 3 per lane and that's just 30 shots. If I remember correctly Bisley took several hours to complete one session last year or year before.

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When I refered to the 50% I am talking bfta card holders. A quick count of Simons post on the bfta forum has sweftas strength at around 30 ( counting on a mobile ). That was my point about team sizes. If you are struggling to field 15 then just dropping the best down to 6 changes no advantage especially if you haven't got 6 shooters of equal standing. Understandable if you've only got 30 to start with and very few circuit shooters.

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With 40 people shooting at any one time instead of 20 it should speed things up.

 

So 80 on the course at one time with buddy marshalling or 40 without, what a slow process enough to turn anyone off.

Look how long it takes most to get ready plus fire off first shot then how long thereafter for second shot. Dare say that would add an unwanted 60mins to each 40 shot session over and above the norm.

I am not good enough to make our top 30 on technicalities but would get in 5 other regions top 10. Has no bearing enticing newbies to national scene, the GP's are for that assuming regions submitting grades to BFTA.

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Not sure i noticed north p being slow. But then I only shot it once.

I seem to remember a wait at the start but that happens at all feed ons.

How long was it taking to take 4 shots then, did you time them? I'm assuming the 20 mins was a build up or were the other lanes all empty?

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Are you saying 40 lanes faster or slower Jon?

 

I know I burn time getting comfy, npa etc sorting out pellets etc. Can only think that time would be lost doing that every shot rather than just once and sending two off.

 

Granted getting 80 on the course would stop the hanging around but once on I'm not sure it would be any quicker.

 

Drop the time to 1:30 ;). It can all be done in a minute anyway.

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Far slower beyond comprehension.

You would have to factor in the extra 20 lanes where people faff about and get them selves ready. Then as soon as scope comes to eye most take 50 secs for first shot but only a further 20 secs for 2nd shot because already setup. Then the extra time wasted collecting and packing stuff up before leaving lane.

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