Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
holly

Kit and the FT Shooter

Recommended Posts

One of my long distance mates is a chap called Neil Mckinnon . he hoves from the west country . he had a break from FT shooting , but for various reasons is back looking at the kit . he has i think the bug .again . looking at it from new eye's so to speak . he see's FT as it is now , from what it was ten years back or so . he see's bling rifles , expensive rifles . extras's on those riflers that would cost as much as a rifle did then . common senses say's that surely an RN10 MK 1 with a custom shop , or even a zos on top , would do the same job if in good nick .my view is that boy's and there toy's come into this . pride of ownership .he has the hot's for a VERY nice walther and maybe a lupe 20+50 on top . so what will win . basic or top of the range . hmmmmm as colin would say . i know where my is money going on the bet ??? HOLLY

Edited by holly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a while since I did FT as I can no longer knee and have real problems getting up from sitting however I don't see that it's changed much.

 

Some shooters will always seek to buy success believing that must have the latest kit to win. Others will follow what the top shooters use or what is in fashion even though it may not make any improvement to the competency of their shooting.

 

The only difference now is cost. Fifteen years ago Air Airs brought out the Pro Target. That rifle was on sale new for about £650.00. Now the FTP 900, the modern equivalent is just shy of £1500. A Daystate Huntsman was a good starting rifle 15 years ago at about £450.00, the latest generation is nearly £800.00.

 

The Anschutz was probably the most expensive FT rifle then, now the Steyr is £2100, The Walther £2300, and the Anschutz circa £1800. With the Daystate Mk4 Target at about £1500 every one of the high grade rifles are way above what they used to cost.

 

Why? Because there's a market for them.

 

Does a good condition Pro Target shoot as well as a £2,000 plus FT gun? I would say most shooters will not notice the difference. Stock fit will probably make more improvement than anything else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This time out rifle wise i am going for a rifle that is efficient rather than pretty . synthetic stock , no bell's or whistles . lightness over form . so that when i add the essential such as . butt hook . lifter and scope . the weight will be kept down . at least that is the hope . obviously balance must come into this . but i won't know that untill i try it /?? HOLLY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Protarget just a renamed RN10 from 1995 £640 or think £680 with needed stepped rail. Many abused around cosmetically good. GC2 from £1250, Scimitar £1500.

15 years ago a Ripper would set you back £900 and an S400 £280 retail.

13 years ago P70FT Alum brand new £840 retail to get them out there via Centra and ASI. Walthers £750 to 800 in Alum!

2005 an Anchutz laminate starting at £1360, 9003 from £2k, Steyrs £1150 then the £ crash, most foreign went up £500 over night and within 12 months UK producers put their prices up to match. You will still see used and abused pre crash rifles selling at more than cost in the day.

 

So what we got now

Anchutz from £1700 basic to £3200 for 9003

Styers £2100

Feinwerkbau P800XFT £2450, sorted £2600, 10m X modded from £2250 to £3500

AA FTP £1500 plus sorting

 

Secondhand

Steyrs LG100 and 110 from £750

AA RN10 £425 bought one in 98 for £375

AA EV2 £600 onwards good £650 with Korik reg, they are about first class unbutchered.

Anchutz 2002 £650

Anchutz 8002 £1100

Anchutz 9003 £1500 onwards, still current issue.

AA100 Series/Shamal £250 still as good as current replacement.

 

Realistically most producers haven't changed in 20 years except to make quicker and simpler with no R&D. New reinvented models are essentially out of date 1980's ideas, no improvement and many cant see the difference.

Producers that have moved with the times mechanically the average shooter wont see past the cosmetics or shoot it any better than a cheapy.

 

Personally have used the cheapest kit around and done well nationally, £85 to make and still mechanically exceeds whats available 23 years on. This is one area I am adamant on and state don't buy your way in to it, buy cheap, learn the ropes try others then decide.

On other hand have and was first to exceed the £6k barrier 4 years ago, now its fairly common.

 

True there are a lot of useless gizmos, keep it basic less baggage to lug around, one problem less to solve or keep track of.

 

Its the old rule of diminishing returns if £500 would get you decent kit, £1k might do you better but another £4k might only buy latest developments together with quality, its the shooter that counts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only limitation to kit 25 years ago was scopes, the guns were plenty good enough and probably if you stuck a modern scope on a Shamal a competent shooter could easily be competitive.

We have scopes now that we could only dream of 25 years ago... :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with most of what Jon say's excepet the bit about the shamel's . i have owned two and shot many incuding the pre production one and i would not give em house room . i have had two NJRs . now they are a different kettle of fish . still a good gun . ??? HOLLY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Shamal is same as 100 series NJR except modded with reg , Record copy trigger and aluminium thicker wall tube.

 

Straight up best rangefinding scope ever had was a first release April 1994 Tasco 8-40 cost me £470 from NEC, won many a rangefinding contest to within 3" with Calps and Finlay. That's 21 years ago but dare say the one PR Leup Mark 4 Ultra 40 mag of Matts out the two done makes up for it in other ways, how olds that between 88 and 1993?

Its not all and out ranging, balance, weight, field of view, bulk, rets, glass, whiteout and the way it works as an overall scope. For that best found for me as an all rounder to date is the March 10-60.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Shamal is same as 100 series NJR except modded with reg , Record copy trigger and aluminium thicker wall tube.

 

Straight up best rangefinding scope ever had was a first release April 1994 Tasco 8-40 cost me £470 from NEC, won many a rangefinding contest to within 3" with Calps and Finlay. That's 21 years ago but dare say the one PR Leup Mark 4 Ultra 40 mag of Matts out the two done makes up for it in other ways, how olds that between 88 and 1993?

Its not all and out ranging, balance, weight, field of view, bulk, rets, glass, whiteout and the way it works as an overall scope. For that best found for me as an all rounder to date is the March 10-60.

Best one that made an immediate impression on me was the early BSA, bulletproof and the first scope I had that didn't temperature shift every five minutes. Ok, so not the clearest optically, but it could range which was all I was interested in at the time.

 

Agreed on the March, but then you get what you pay for and you shouldn't have to compromise at that price.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

got a new GC2 mk2 cost £850 with 10lt bottle and gauge and hose plus mounts back in the late 80s.

fitted it with a 6-24-50 bouch and loumb target scope £440 this would range find out to 80yds clicked up and down for 4 years like it did from day one .

The scope held point what ever the temp even stayed put on what mag you wanted to use .

I don't see much change in FT just the kit even the scores don't seem any better ..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Disagree with BSA, had one from first batch 2001?

I like to see what I am looking at even at 30 yards couldn't detect anything other than a vague outline, Tasco CU its brown with yellow kill whiting out, PR Mark 4 35 whats the problem every blemish. 3.6mm packing or jacking up rear of scope to get a zero at 30 yards! None with Tasco or Leups. Duly a buyer waiting for next days shoot.

Know of three I could use from that first release, Bob and Daves long packed up they used to buy everything just to find a good one. Between the two at one point they had 18 at one time, that tells you something. Their words can afford to junk them after 12 months.

2004 Niko I persevered for 5 weeks then cut me losses, wouldn't mind could get trade but only way to buy them is see the actual scope, I had 9 in a line waiting at BAR and 240 mile round trip.

 

Agree learn to use the old favourites B&L 4200 now Bushnell. I do know a top shot who has had everything including BSA and a superb Mark 4 35 mag to do a top 18 in worlds, now returned to Bushy on an ISP.

 

Courses are generally easier and thrown out anything will do, to offset that extra disciplines forced in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Out cast your right about the GC2 . but you are W-A-Y out on the Bausch & Lomb my friend . we had a lady shooter called sandy . who used a GC2 with said 6 to 24 by 40 scope on it . she used to win long range comps out to said 80 yards with it . her old man hurt his back and the kit was all sold . i bought the bausch to see how she could do what i could not with my 32 mag MK4 . well i tried it and tried it . their is no way on this earth , that scope could range out to 80 yards . i dunno how she did it . but it was def not with that scope . anybody want's to try . i still have it . the clearest inch tube scope i have . ??? HOLLY

 

PS the balivar i think they are called . still get good money from the spring gun boy's .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bottom line we do this as a hobby and do it to enjoy ourselves.

Its whatever you feel comfortable spending and dropping on the right kit at that moment in time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bottom line we do this as a hobby and do it to enjoy ourselves.

Its whatever you feel comfortable spending and dropping on the right kit at that moment in time.

very true Jon..................................

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes it is a hobby and you should enjoy it . BUT as long as nobody say's to me that FT is FUN , i don't mind . Fun , Fun . i don't have time for fun . this is serious business . practice , practice . gotta beat the rest , gotta keep the scores up . gotta keep the average up , gotta keep the grades up . is it gonna rain , is it gonna be windy . are the latest batch of pellets up to scratch . Fun , don't bother me with FUN ??? HOLLY

 

PS you wanna find out about fun . then speak to colin .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I got back into FT a few years back I bought a Pro Target and stuck a zos scope in top. I remember picking up some silverware at a mini mayhem with that set up. You don't need expensive gear to be competitive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with most of what Jon say's excepet the bit about the shamel's . i have owned two and shot many incuding the pre production one and i would not give em house room . i have had two NJRs . now they are a different kettle of fish . still a good gun . ??? HOLLY

What scope did you have on the shamal? As Colin said it's more the scope than the rifle back then. Stick a March on top of a shamal and would it really a bad rifle to shoot,I reckon it could still hold its own in the right hands. A good example is John Chopping. NJR with a Burris on top and he was one of the best shooters in the SEFTA region.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the difficulty of current FT courses.

 

How would the shooter with a an NJR and a Burris who was scoring well 12 years ago cope with the difficulty level of a current course of fire?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Keith john choppin ( tight git ) still uses his origional NJR with a 32 mag buris on top and is probably the best shot in SEFTA ( after me that is ) . when all is said and done it must be the nut behind the trigger if all other things are equal . i don't think the courses are any harder than they were . in my case it is me getting older .??? HOLLY

 

PS oh and stan , your another tight git like john .

Edited by holly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

personally in the last few years I think the courses, especially Gp have got a bit too easy.

I don't for example think the Standing lane being restricted to 60 yards is a tough enough test at national level. 70 yards would be better for standers to me, kneeling lanes to 80 yards.

Quite a few Gp courses when you get into the big woods many are situated in become inside the kill jobs, no test of being able to shoot in wind and not very interesting!

At least, if there is a slight breeze or more, Oaktree and millride will test, with possibly parts of Avon hawks testing Gp shooters in the exposed areas.

 

Saying that John chopping is a very capable shooter with "old" kit. Old kit set up correctly is just as capable as the latest £5000+ Blig!

I did not do too bady with my Njy and Mk4 up to the change over in 2011. Infact, my scores have not gone up by that much and on accasion, have plumited with the ev2!! lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Keith john choppin ( tight git ) still uses his origional NJR with a 32 mag buris on top and is probably the best shot in SEFTA ( after me that is ) . when all is said and done it must be the nut behind the trigger if all other things are equal . i don't think the courses are any harder than they were . in my case it is me getting older .??? HOLLY

 

PS oh and stan , your another tight git like john .

Haha nothing to do with being tight. I've had the GC's and Ripleys and leups etc but I've come to the conclusion that it ain't all about the kit it's how the kit suits you. I know I can sit down with my Pro Target and big BSA and everything aligns up perfectly,I've got to the point where it feels like an extension to my body and I don't think I can get that same feeling from another rifle. No lifters no Palm shelves no space age looking butt hooks all that twiddling would do my nut in. I've shot against people that have scopes that cost 3-4 times the cost of my whole set up but I can still beat them. It's consistant the barrel never needs cleaning and the scope don't shift in winter/summer times. I can also use it on 25 mag Why would I swap that for something that id have to learn all over again. Nah. You keep your over priced guns. Edited by springboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh right oh stan .i was gonna give you my spare 9003 with a 60 mag march on top . but since you insist you can keep your old clunker /?? HOLLY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only rifle I've ever had that felt 'right' with very little fiddling was my NJR which replaced the shamal. A truly beautiful rifle and it was a tack-driver from day one.

The only thing that let it down was sticking an EFR scope ontop which was optically perfect but so temperature sensitive it made the SB FT look tame by comparison; any heat near to 20 degrees and it simply free-focussed above 35 yards as I found out to my cost at the '92 Worlds in all that heat on the field.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the difficulty of current FT courses.

 

How would the shooter with a an NJR and a Burris who was scoring well 12 years ago cope with the difficulty level of a current course of fire?

Lucky John has an amnoying tendancy to put highest scores on,or even clear courses. Oh and i do believe its a TM not njr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OH no it isn't it is an NJR ??? HOLLY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Theres quite a few decent shots that still use the Burris RA and B&L, rifles haven't really improved just the failure rate.

Still yet to see or hear a rifle that can consistently put groups in 23 years on you would swear were shot at point blank range but at 55 and 60 yards.

 

Courses were much harder even up to 5 years ago in the sense they were put out in the true spirit of the sport unlike today.

Courses easier and subsequently often cleared rules changed to add more discipline shots that's now 12 on a 50 shot against 4 to 6 before.

 

No need for gizmos (lifters, adjustable things always fighting a lost cause) learn the basics and use to good effect with no excess baggage to carry around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you are right Holy the B&L was 6x24x40 1 inch tube but it was hell of a range finder.

It was the Target we had and used to buy them for $ sell them for £ good cash maker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No Gizmo's Jon . no , no . a man must have something to enchance his day . even if it is just a gizmo . i still think the sillist thing i ever saw on a FT course was a pair of lad's using a wind machine connected to a computer . which one told the other one how much wind to give each target ( colin would love this ) needless to say they got slaughtered ??? HOLLY :poster_oops:

 

PS gizmo's and bling are here to stay . plus gimp coat's . :iagree:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rangefinding , Well outcast , it was with her . but it was not with me . good to 45 yards . after that bracketing was the only way . having said that . she used bisley magnums 10.06 . there was a target out the back at ETL . 60 yards . a spinner on a post on top of a rise . the big one an inch the little one half an inch . i could hit the top one with my 7.9 prems . she could get the bottom one . grrrrr ??? HOLLY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No Gizmo's Jon . no , no . a man must have something to enchance his day . even if it is just a gizmo . i still think the sillist thing i ever saw on a FT course was a pair of lad's using a wind machine connected to a computer . which one told the other one how much wind to give each target ( colin would love this ) needless to say they got slaughtered ??? HOLLY :poster_oops:

 

PS gizmo's and bling are here to stay . plus gimp coat's . :iagree:

Regarding the wind gizmo attached to a laptop, I was shooting round with him at one of the Worlds, took forever to assess the wind then finally picked the rifle up, shot and missed virtually every one.

I asked him how judging the wind where he sat made any difference to the windage and he told me I didn't know what I was talking about, so Just let him get on with it.

This was at curridge where as we know, the wind is all over the shop from one second to the next.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

never used bracketing always used the par/ring and it never let me down

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×