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NeilMac

Factory spec, or modified?

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There is a bit of a storm going on in the FTP900 thread on stb about modified rifles. Coincidentally, I am currently writing a piece about why people modify their rifles.

 

There are obvious reasons, like the work Dave Welham does on Anschutz and Jon does on many rifles, but currently the FWB800X, but what about people, like myself, who free float barrels and tweak regs, or Nick Murphy or Wayne or the handful of other reg makers and rifle tuners, why do some people feel the need to 'improve' a £1500 to £2000 rifle when others are happy to plug away with a factory spec machine?

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Biggest issue for me with the FTP was the AT which just doesn't work on a target rifle. If the rifle was running at the fps indicated on the included sheet I.e. 780 then I wouldn't have been so worried, but 720 +/- 25fps just wasn't acceptable.

All the other bells and whistles are just bling.

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The wish to improve is always at the forefront of things i think . mechanical advantage if it can be gotten is desireable . just to make the rifle stand out from the crowd , another . possibly because the owner ( like colin ) is a rather average shot . so he lets his rifle do the talking for him . cause i could be wrong ( unusual ) ??? HOLLY

 

PSi have a brand new rifle . threw the butt pad away , fitted a butt hook . fitted a rail on the forend and a lifter . gonna fit a muzzle brake .

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It probably has something to do with mass production Neil. What we want just isn't available off the shelf, it very nearly is, but not quite. We buy the foundation, within our individual budget, then we build on that to get closer to what we really want. Plus of course, there's individualism. Take a look at the range of scope knobs at any club or competition, as individual and different to every other as the man/woman holding the gun. Long may it be so too.

 

Lastly, fiddling (within our individual technical abilities) and making things different/better for us, is all part of the hobby.

 

I believe we're all guilty of slagging the manufacturer, me included, when we buy our foundation rifle and it doesn't do what we expect for what we paid. That's not necessarily the manufacturers fault, BUT, lack of customer service, decent communication with the customer and lack decent technical information and cooperation, is their fault.

 

Maybe customers need to adjust expectations? Hands up who bought their last rifle and settled for it exactly as it came out of the box? Take Holly's example above.

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I agree Barry, people do like to tweak and personalise, but it seems that some rifles call for it, like the early EV2's and FTP's and others like the Daystate Panther do exactly what it says on the tin.

 

Perhaps it is as much that some rifles are relatively easy to modify / customise.

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As does the Mk3 and we have fingers crossed that the Pulsar will be the same ;-)

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I changed my 2002 slightly either to cure faults or even to make it fit a gun bag with out taking it apart. Cut the should off to fit the bay then removed the shroud completly from the barrel and made the muzzle brake and floated the barrel with extra action grub screws in the action . Transfer port gub screw/hammer and reg reset which sorted the totally any power change and then have just been able to shoot it ever since with out changing any thing . There again my RNs where slightly changed from stock as well. Mind you I might shoot more if it was not so sorted.

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What you need Keith is a MODERATOR . A BIG one ??? HOLLY

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I changed my 2002 slightly either to cure faults or even to make it fit a gun bag with out taking it apart. Cut the should off to fit the bay then removed the shroud completly from the barrel and made the muzzle brake and floated the barrel with extra action grub screws in the action . Transfer port gub screw/hammer and reg reset which sorted the totally any power change and then have just been able to shoot it ever since with out changing any thing . There again my RNs where slightly changed from stock as well. Mind you I might shoot more if it was not so sorted.

No, you'd shoot more if you weren't out biking....:)

Regarding the fiddling I think there's a little bit of nerdism gets in the mix as well, reminds me of when we had our Midget and used to go to MG rallies; it wasn't the same unless you'd broken down every 10 miles on the way there, replaced the gearbox, crankshaft and diff. by the side of the road just using spanners, a pair of pliers and a big dollop of blue tac... :)

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I changed my 2002 slightly either to cure faults or even to make it fit a gun bag with out taking it apart. Cut the should off to fit the bay then removed the shroud completly from the barrel and made the muzzle brake and floated the barrel with extra action grub screws in the action . Transfer port gub screw/hammer and reg reset which sorted the totally any power change and then have just been able to shoot it ever since with out changing any thing . There again my RNs where slightly changed from stock as well. Mind you I might shoot more if it was not so sorted.

Yeah,barely altered at all

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Personally I prefer to buy second hand. They usually have all the niggles ironed out and sometimes you can even get a bit of history with it that can back up if it's a good rifle

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Personally I prefer to buy second hand. They usually have all the niggles ironed out and sometimes you can even get a bit of history with it that can back up if it's a good rifle

But do you then leave well alone, or do you prefer to personalise it?

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Yes neil , stan scratched his name in the stock with a screw driver ??? HOLLY

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I'm a bit of a believer in if its not broken.

I don't really go for the personal

Touch when it comes to guns. I may just may get I titanium tube for it one day.

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Yers he might do that ? but only if he can nick it ??? HOLLY

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I am with Stan, leave it well alone if its working.

 

Seems most foreign countries use as they are supplied because that's the way the manufacturer intended it to be used. How many off the shelf AR20 was used in the German worlds? Didn't take long for us Brits to figure and sort, same with most 10m rifles especially the P800, P70, all Anchutz, Steyrs, Walthers, Tesro etc they don't test for temp shift they are designed to use in a climatised room.

 

Aside from that I want a purposeful rifle with no excess baggage or unnecessary gizmos to lug around.

 

Agree its pride of ownership some want bling like Jason, me I don't care as long as its mechanically sound, performs, tatty and all which is just cosmetic and easily put right.

One time used to have people follow me round with WD40 as they didn't like to get beat with rusty kit. By the way aluminium don't rust, screws easily replaced or refinished.

 

Found out some titanium tube came from US 12 years ago and never done anything with it. No weight saving on a thick wall aluminium tube and barely any lighter than thin walled AA steel tubes. Generally its a weight saving over steel because thinner wall can be used but most are not.

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We had a bloke like you in our old motorcycle club Jon . he had a A65 BSA . he had never washed it from new . so we waited till he was having a sleep and we washed it and polished it , right up till it gleamed . when he saw it after he woke . he went potty and chased us around saying he woluld kill us . what a laugh ??? HOLLY

 

PS Now jon where do you keep that rusty old rifle ?

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Jon, I must admit I'm still surprised that the big German manufacturers haven't produced a purpose built FT rifle that is temperature stable and weather-proof.

There must be a growing market on the continent for such products and yet the best they'll do is whack them up to 12fpe, stick FT on the end of the name for an otherwise stock 10m rifle.

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I will be building a HFT gun using a HW101 one shot load no mag to mess up .

will be fitting a CS800 stock with no added bits and bats.

KISS is the best way to go less thinking less to do your head in you just shoot no head burn.

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Well, this is turning out to be a different thread from the one I imagined.

 

Jon, you put my attitude perfectly, I want a purposeful gun that will do the business better than I can.

 

I do like some style to my mods and upgrades, so that it does not look like a collection of 'must have' bolt ons (I've seen more than a few motorcycles like that), but if a piece of kit does not earn it's keep, then off it comes again.

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Neil . when fordy made the Sportsmatch GC2 . he said he wanted to make a rifle nobody had to have tuned ? and you know what . HE DID ??? HOLLY

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Neil . when fordy made the Sportsmatch GC2 . he said he wanted to make a rifle nobody had to have tuned ? and you know what . HE DID ??? HOLLY

They have enough trouble servicing them, let alone tuning them... :)

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Just like a builder I will do anyone elses but my own.

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They have no problem servicing em colin . the problem is the price he wants to do em . paul there does them to a high standard .??? HOLLY

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I agree. The GC2 was superb the way it left the factory and didn't need any mods.

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Personally rule number 1 is function then try and make it look nice.

All engineering co's no resemblance to what user requires its more a case of its quicker to make this way turned round and avoided knowingly (probably not) with hyped up marketing.

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The reason Sportsmatch stopped selling the GC2 was cos there was no profit in em . cast your eye over the rifle . no sharp edges . nothing for water to get into . yes it could have been improved later but there you go . if it look's right , it is right ??? HOLLY

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The only problem with the GC2's was that the trigger was treated as an afterthought. It's like old Gerald spent 10 years working out all the internals only to realise when he thought he'd finished that it had no trigger, so he quickly cobbled one together based on an old English cross-bow. Pity as the rest of the gun was good, almost too good a bit like the BAR when it was introduced.

 

I'm sure there were good ones out there where owners have fettled and polished, but all that I tried over the years were not good, especially in comparison to the competition and of all the worst of the bunch, the bottom dog as it were was Hollie's bull-pup.

 

It was an insult to even call it a trigger it was that bad.

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It was a case of adjustment colin . you either got it or you did not . the trigger worked back wards i am told , and under pressure like a springer . as said with some small updates it would be up there now ??? HOLLY

PS i did at one stage ask whiscombe if he would sort it out . he said no , he only worked on his gun'

 

PS i tried terry almonds world champ winning one and it was great .

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It was a case of adjustment colin . you either got it or you did not . the trigger worked back wards i am told , and under pressure like a springer . as said with some small updates it would be up there now ??? HOLLY

 

PS i did at one stage ask whiscombe if he would sort it out . he said no , he only worked on his gun'

 

PS i tried terry almonds world champ winning one and it was great .

 

That doesn't surprise me about Terry's rifle, he seems the sort that wouldn't let a dodgy trigger get in the way of a good gun. :)

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