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holly

The Shutz Barrel

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Simple was always your best attribute Dave . good windage is simple , you aim off and inch . it goes an inch . bad windage is , you aim off an inch , it goes half an inch . if your idea of what the windage is , with the rifle you are using , is wrong . you are using the wrong rifle . ??? HOLLY

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How do you know its gonna move 1", you don't.

Certainly with the way FT has become taking the skill out the equation.

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Because Jon a good barrel takes what i call an average wind . not exact but a good average . which i think is about all you can expect from a legal limit air rifle . ??? HOLLY

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Its not the barrel how many more times proven 5 yrs ago.

10-15 yrs time some bright spark might hit on the idea and understand what happens rather than think what happens.

 

Accuracy aside I will put serious dosh down and could fit a known to be dire barrel to Neils, Dazs, Bertys and many others and will get exactly the same drift.

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Well more drift or less drift , today was a last chance to find a lighter rifle i can use in the winter league . nope there is i am afraid no replacement for displacement . in other words weight .gotta have a certain weight to hold the damn thing steady .will keep looking . but for the mo the shutz is it . ??? HOLLY

 

PS things going for it . accuarcy ,reliability , ease of altering the power . the trigger the depth of the stock and weight .

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Well more drift or less drift , today was a last chance to find a lighter rifle i can use in the winter league . nope there is i am afraid no replacement for displacement . in other words weight .gotta have a certain weight to hold the damn thing steady .will keep looking . but for the mo the shutz is it . ??? HOLLY

 

PS things going for it . accuarcy ,reliability , ease of altering the power . the trigger the depth of the stock and weight .

 

So basically after exhausting all other options we're back to ol' faithful....:grin:

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well untill i can find something , it must be the shutz . the nobless was good enough . just a lack of a single shot loader that has stopped me using it . shame that .. have not sold it yet so maybe some one will make one ??? HOLLY

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Ok Shutz and wifes Steyr out tomorrow . she has somehow loosened the side wheel . got arms like popeye that girl from swiming . ??? HOLLY

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Steyr sorted . good day out with the shutz . started to get some where position wise . tomorrow will see if i can improve again ??? HOLLY

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Now jon is always going on about the barrel not being as much to do with the accuracy of the rifle as you think .well i do like my CZ barrels . but thinking back to the wifes steyr . that rifle has had three barrels on it . each of them has been a tack driver . now i have had four steyrs and only this one has been good . so it makes you think , maybe just for once Jon is right ??? HOLLY

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Now jon is always going on about the barrel not being as much to do with the accuracy of the rifle as you think .well i do like my CZ barrels . but thinking back to the wifes steyr . that rifle has had three barrels on it . each of them has been a tack driver . now i have had four steyrs and only this one has been good . so it makes you think , maybe just for once Jon is right ??? HOLLY

 

So, if it's not the barrel, what is it, that 'mojo' between a tack driver and a shotgun? :grin:

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I dunno Colin , jon hints it something to do with the way the power is delivered . after all i had three useless steyrs . i buy one that has had three different barrels on it . all of them were good in this rifle . doers not make sense . ??? HOLLY

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I dunno Colin , jon hints it something to do with the way the power is delivered . after all i had three useless steyrs . i buy one that has had three different barrels on it . all of them were good in this rifle . doers not make sense . ??? HOLLY

 

I can't see how the power delivery would make a jot of difference except in velocity. I know Jon favours the short, sharp blip of power approach as opposed to the steady build up over the length of the barrel, but considering that the same pellet is constrained in the same barrel I can't see how that would or would not make a rifle accurate.

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Don't know but when you think that some say that springers take less wind ? who knows . ??? HOLLY

 

PS Talking of wind down the club yesterday . there was half a gale blowing . Jon would have left a deposit in his pants .

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Well Shutz out of retirement  . the air leak seems to be sorted . i have as said taken everything off it possible to lighten it . lupe on board . will give it a run out in the week . not sure about wednesday . as the weather does not look good . thursday looks better  . ??? HOLLY

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Its been known for decades springers take far less drift with same slugs used.

Been working on it since 2012 on and off but there is one person on here that can confirm if he has the bottle, personally i wouldnt touch whilst it working good.

 

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1 hour ago, Jon said:

Its been known for decades springers take far less drift with same slugs used.

Been working on it since 2012 on and off but there is one person on here that can confirm if he has the bottle, personally i wouldnt touch whilst it working good.

 

I’ve noticed that Jon with all my springers. Is it to do with the shape of the pellet due to the way the air is expelled? 

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Found this on Facebook 

2448F543-109E-474F-A609-61CB2A17EE09.jpeg

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87D2DE46-C5C7-4DA8-A7F7-E12BF6AFC70D.jpeg

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D690A5AC-253A-4436-A046-07D8B493AA35.jpeg

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On 21/07/2017 at 9:16 AM, Eaton Rifles said:

 

I can't see how the power delivery would make a jot of difference except in velocity. I know Jon favours the short, sharp blip of power approach as opposed to the steady build up over the length of the barrel, but considering that the same pellet is constrained in the same barrel I can't see how that would or would not make a rifle accurate.

In springers it makes a difference how the power is delivered. When people mess around with reduced diameter pistons and softer/harder springs etc,it can dictate which type of pellet they prefer. Shorter stroked springers can tend to prefer a harder pellet like the super dome. Longer stroke can veer towards a softer compound like JSB/AA. The same can be said for pcp I would’ve thought 

Edited by springboy

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I had heard the "springers are better in the wind than PCP's" and so have been noting the scores at my local shoots (I complete a spreadsheet with my scores/conditions/missed shots - sad I know) looking into the springer class there does seem to be an improvement of percentage scores on windy days for the springer guys with a reduction for the PCP guys, it is a fairly small sample but looks like a trend?

 

To add to the train of thought that the action has as much if not more effect on accuracy/precision/wind I have been messing with two Steyr rifles I have.

I have a LG110 with the new hammer/spring design and an LG100 with the old hammer/spring, the 100 had a barley twist on it the 110 had a barrel of unknown make on - neither have barrel tuners fitted.

This odd barrel is off an LG100 that John Sykes made (rifle sold) for a magazine article many years ago to try and produce "The ultimate hunting rifle", all I can say is its a 12mm diameter barrel completely sleeved in aluminium up to 16mm, its the best barrel I have ever owned but does seem to suffer from wind - or so I perceived.

Recently the 110 began to throw a few all-over odd ones (I wont say flyers as some were high some were low and simplistically I associate flyers with high and/or sideways - barrel related, and low shots - action related so not flyers in my mind) so I did the usual barrel clean and action checks (cleanliness, polishing, reg checking) no change, about one odd shot per shoot. One thing I notice was the hammer was always filthy and badly marked even after a few hundred shots.

Now I don't like the 110 action with the cocking lever slot all the way through it completely opens the hammer to the atmosphere (tried sealing one side with closed cell foam but looked awful) so I moved the odd barrel to the 100, it seemed to change the response of the old barrel completely - felt like it was taking less wind so I decided to try and check (should have done down range BC but didn't - maybe in the summer) have over 50 yards in my garden, it was a windy day so set target at 45 yards and shot several groups with the barrel on the 100, looked good and readable, quick as I could moved the barrel to the 110 and things definitely took a step change the wind taken now seemed to be unreadable and sometimes very little taken, sometimes loads and it was random. Not very scientific I know but all I have so far.

Both actions are set to 750f/s with same pellets, both give around 5-10f/s variation on this, both action regs are working very well both set 85Barg and give within 1Bar variation consistantly (I rebuild my regs following all the good advice out there, clean, seal, lube polish Belleville faces.... and I check them as if in a shoot, i.e. tap the checker every few minutes for 30-50 shots, also check for creep).  Actions have ame valve/spring, obviously the ports and plenum are the same, the only difference is the hammer/spring combination.

I don't like the new hammer, it can rotate introducing differences and the spring bends when compressed - the good thing is external adjustment, but have fixed that.

From a design perspective I prefer the old hammer as its easier to guide the spring, it doesn't rotate in the action and the sear drag is constant - so in the 100 I now have the old hammer/spring with spring guided and depinged with a PTFE sleeve, with all bearing surfaces polished (including the flat face to bolt pin one) but fitted with a modified external spring tension adjuster - best of all worlds :-)

So the only difference I can see between these actions is the hammer/spring and concequent way the air is delivered, a long winded (see what I did there) way of saying I think the delivery of air from action IS as important to the overall performance as is the barrel.

One thing I am looking forward to doing is strapping this good LG and my new Schutz side by side on my shooting bench and pulling the triggers at the same time, aimed at the same target, on a windy day.....coming soon.

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11 hours ago, springboy said:

87D2DE46-C5C7-4DA8-A7F7-E12BF6AFC70D.jpeg

These look to have been rodded through, I think the delivery of the air to the back of the pellet would not only effect the patterns shown here but puff out the back of the pellets differently too?

Would be interesting to collect some of the same pellets, undamaged,  shot from short/long springers and fast/slow PCP's to see if they give different pellet shapes - although I suppose checking downrange BC (muzzle/target velocities) would give some indication of a difference?

Then there is rifling rate......

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Yes I think you’re right. I think the purpose of it is to show how the rifling effects the pellets 

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Well Mr Moore that was the most interesting thing I have read on here in ages , keep it up .on the two polygon barrels I have used , both have been really pellet fussy to the point that could I could not find a pellet they liked . The best wind rifle I own is my old 2002 . So it makes me wonder if worn or scratch fidelity g is the way to go . Holly

 

 

 

 

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Definately looks like pellets been rodded through.
Whats this thread about, oh are barrels.

Polygon only seem to come in to it using heavies around 900 ft/sec and why the yanks rave.

Must say you cant tell by looking down the bore whether a barrels going to be any good or not.
Back in 95 bought a B10/45 chines 10 shot pump up just for the barrel ex Diana barrel making tooling. Transfer port on these drilled in to barrel what they did was leave heavy file marks deburring but was shallow lands. Very accurate put on the semi bullpup i made in 1995 and very efficient 113 shots from 115bar fill until butchered in 2000.
Other barrels like glass have not grouped at all, just cant tell.

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My old shutz went through a period when the groups were not in it . i even bought another 2002 so as to change barrels . but once i changed over to AAs . back came the groups . ??? HOLLY

Edited by holly

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Out today with the 2002 . bitterly cold . i had enough after 5 hours . not to bad in the open but in the wood , urgggh .  saw my first red squirrel on the year . a young one . running through the trees . anyway filled the rifle and zeroed it , pretty easy to get it on zero . although i will check it when it is less windy . the lupe was spot on at the longer ranges . but slightly out at the closer ones . will check that as i go along .  groups were once i had shot it in , were good . average was half an inch at 50 yards . but i did notice that since i have lightened it . . i had to hang onto the front of the rifle to stop the shots going high . good to get back to a quality trigger .  will check it all again sunday . as i am wonder if i have made it to light and that i may get some zero change . ??? HOLLY

 

PS I had a quick word with the rifle , which i call herman the german . before shooting . Guten Tag Herr Herman . he replied . Donna und Blitzund  . ze Britisher swinehund .. ze ave been messing with zat GC2 Tart . yes sorry herman . it won't happen again .  and away we went .

Edited by holly

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Well today i was a standing god . well at least till i got tired . enjoyed that . with all the kit i have taken off the rifle it is shorter and lighter . still need a wegu but pad though . sitters were better too . need a slightly warmer day to try the new shooting / motor cycle jacket i got . hopefully in the week ??? HOLLY

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Well the good news is that i seem to have cured the leak ( touch wood ) in the shutz . so out it goes tomorrow . good really cos i did not want to take Mr Canes Pup out in this weather ??? HOLLY

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