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holly

Chinese Quality ? SMK

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Big Bazza who is a fan of pups since he bought my cricket . sent me a few words he found on face book from a gent in kent  " Air Rifle Tech "sittingbourne i think . he is talking about a budget rifle from SMK ( Spit ) well at least that is what i usually say . but have a read about what he say's about the SMK ATEMIS P 15 .  titanium air cylinder . floating hammer . reg . £300 on special offer . ??? HOLLY :)

Edited by holly

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straight to the point as ever . yep your right . but it is very good value for money turd Dave ??? HOLLY

 

PS air arms are charging £1200 odd for a pup with a reg and a walnut stock . 

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Usually with these Chinese guns is that you think you’re getting a bargain but by the time you fettle it to shoot properly you’re not much better off then buying the real mackoy. Then there’s the fact if you want to sell it on it’s still a Chinese copy made from monkey metal. 

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Dont know where he got one for £299. A quick search brought up  two prices £489 and £435 

Edited by springboy

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Countryway were doing a special offer a while back (they do offers every now and again, did have a Hawke 10-50 for £399 on their site last year)

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It say's Countryway Gunshop ? . stan titanium is not monkey metal ??? HOLLY

 

PS just had a quick look . £435 . still not bad for a regged gun ??? HOLLY

Edited by holly

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I had a look on e bay for reviews for the rifle and came across a strip of one . the fella on it is to engineering what Dave Croucher is to dieting . it is full of  -covered in gore- thing and you bast--d  and such  . if he found all the bits afterwards to put it back together i am a dutchman , ??? HOLLY  :)

 

PS Must be Jon's Apprentice  :soj:

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Should read You Tube , not e bay .HOLLY

 

PS true but , titanium is stronger . it fills to 250 bar ??? HOLLY

Edited by holly

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Doesn't make any difference what it's made of as to what pressure it takes, you design around the pressure. If your standard working pressure is 200 then your test is 300 and your fail will be even higher. For 300 bar cylinders test is 450 and test over 600 (i think, can't remember), steel, ally or ti. Doesn't matter what you make it out of you spec the materials for the load. For the given load on a tube and the amount of metal used titanium is not lighter than an ally cylinder. 

People think ti is light, but it's not as light as ally. Although stronger you still need a certain amount of it to have a required strength, and you need a certain amount of ally... and that certain amount weighs less than the amount of ti you need. That's why you don't see them on 10m guns because the manufacturers can spec and produce the ally they need. Cost isn't an issue either, the new composite tubes on the LP500's are 250 euros each.

Ti cylinders are a simple option to replace a steel tube. That's because it's pretty safe (if you know what you're doing) to over spec a pressure cylinder. However working with aluminium your margins for error are less, and your metallurgy needs to be spot on. To be honest all your knowledge & skills need to be spot on with pressures that are like over 2 tonnes sitting on every square inch of metal no matter what you're using or doing.. This is why despite knowing a little on how to do it I don't get involved with QF's etc because there's people like Mick, Jon, Jonno etc that know their stuff and can bear the responsibility. Also why i don't get details on it published on the forum because I don't want to encourage people who think that jamming a pressure bearing part in a vice is an example to others. 

 

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The old steel ripley cylinders were tested to 9000 psi . personally i am not comfortable beyond  200 bar .  except when the valve got stuck on my bottle and filled my shutz to 300 bar . bit of a bowl  movement there ??? HOLLY

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2 hours ago, robF said:

Doesn't make any difference what it's made of as to what pressure it takes, you design around the pressure. If your standard working pressure is 200 then your test is 300 and your fail will be even higher. For 300 bar cylinders test is 450 and test over 600 (i think, can't remember), steel, ally or ti. Doesn't matter what you make it out of you spec the materials for the load. For the given load on a tube and the amount of metal used titanium is not lighter than an ally cylinder. 

People think ti is light, but it's not as light as ally. Although stronger you still need a certain amount of it to have a required strength, and you need a certain amount of ally... and that certain amount weighs less than the amount of ti you need. That's why you don't see them on 10m guns because the manufacturers can spec and produce the ally they need. Cost isn't an issue either, the new composite tubes on the LP500's are 250 euros each.

Ti cylinders are a simple option to replace a steel tube. That's because it's pretty safe (if you know what you're doing) to over spec a pressure cylinder. However working with aluminium your margins for error are less, and your metallurgy needs to be spot on. To be honest all your knowledge & skills need to be spot on with pressures that are like over 2 tonnes sitting on every square inch of metal no matter what you're using or doing.. This is why despite knowing a little on how to do it I don't get involved with QF's etc because there's people like Mick, Jon, Jonno etc that know their stuff and can bear the responsibility. Also why i don't get details on it published on the forum because I don't want to encourage people who think that jamming a pressure bearing part in a vice is an example to others. 

 

The bloke from GINB was working on a pcp that had a cylinder that was threaded shallow to allow for more volume and it blew the filler valve off into his hand and smacked him in the head. He was laid up in hospital for a bit,it was a third party cylinder he was working on but it goes to show there are people out there that claim to be gunsmiths but are just chancers 

Edited by springboy

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Don't mess with compressed air .remember the pictures in the old lorry tyre changing places Stan . of the imprint of the fellas body on the ceiling of the garage . when the rim blew out cos he had not used the tyre cage . and smashed him into the ceiling . that must have been a mess ??? HOLLY

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23 hours ago, holly said:

Big Bazza who is a fan of pups since he bought my cricket . sent me a few words he found on face book from a gent in kent  " Air Rifle Tech "sittingbourne i think . he is talking about a budget rifle from SMK ( Spit ) well at least that is what i usually say . but have a read about what he say's about the SMK ATEMIS P 15 .  titanium air cylinder . floating hammer . reg . £300 on special offer . ??? HOLLY :)

Air rifle tech just tuned and fettled my new cricket (bought for £899.00 including a cheek piece and two magazines). What he did basically, is put right everything tha CGR did wrong when turning the gun down to the U.K. power limit. The cost, including the bling, was 200 quid and it’s money very well spent. I believe Adam, the tech chap does know what he’s talking about, he certainly knows what he’s doing. The rifle is amazing (now).

i still wouldn’t buy an SMK though, but there are budget airgun shooters that will. I’m pretty sure Adam wouldn’t back them if they were bad.

 

Just a heads up too, a little bird told me CGR aren’t importing any more Crickets and as of last week, had one left in stock.

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Bazza has my old cricket . very good rifle . the down side was the magazines and the trigger . bazza loves it , but he could shoot s stove pipe ??? HOLLY

 

PS in fact i think he is ?

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Yup, the magazine system is poor. Air Rifle Tech modified the sideplate on mine which holds the bolt back. I’ve got a single shot loader for club days.

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 The trigger mech remote is far , far to heavy . the rifle should last for ever . built like a tank ??? HOLLY

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Spot on Rob.

 

In short you cant see the danger.

 

Have took an Anchutz aluminium cylinder rethreaded one end to 305bar. Still operates to 200bar.

Interestingly last night a member on here mentioned a step down from 300bar test pressure to 200bar  thought would get a load more shots- Errrrr thats the operating pressure and still didnt sink in.

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On 17/04/2018 at 10:30 AM, springboy said:

The bloke from GINB was working on a pcp that had a cylinder that was threaded shallow to allow for more volume and it blew the filler valve off into his hand and smacked him in the head. He was laid up in hospital for a bit,it was a third party cylinder he was working on but it goes to show there are people out there that claim to be gunsmiths but are just chancers 


The actual mechanics of stuff isn't the problem, it's how to do it without causing problems, and knowing what the unseen problems are (that Jon alludes to).

We were fiddling with some ally the other day. We had the right spec but speaking to a professional machinist (ie who does it for a living) he told me the part needs to see an anodiser within hours to avoid it corroding... and that being a possible high pressure bearing part is a very dangerous thing. But luckily we weren't using that spec of ally so all was good. Point is who knows that?

So yeh there's people that can do the mechanics but there's people who can know how it should be done and why it should be done that way with what it's done with. But you really don't know what you don't know and apprentiships take several years and that's only the start of it.

The more I'm playing with making swarf the more I realise the less I know, and just how massive a subject it is, and how much you need to know and how much I never will.
 

Edited by robF

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Had a few close shaves over the years as well,  so called respected companies work.

Best one that went up was one of them heavy 2lb+ Rapid cylinder conversions from Joe ward, idiot used 1/4"BSP Ext thread with a 1/8"BSP up the middle, in brass of all things. =0.83mm wall thickness with 232bar and 2lb of weight hanging off it. Have sheared exactly that at a menial 30bar just to check valves at low pressure when i used to make regs, that makes you jump.


Just as bad are them buddy bottle quick fills where they drill, thread 1/8"BSP (9.73mm) and screw a nipple in to sub 3mm depth all the rave in US. No way can beef it up only have sub 11.8mm (1/4"BSP) entrance hole  other end.

Lower end of the market have to make them idiot proof more so, how many HW100 aftermarket cylinders you heard thats gone bang.

 

Personally not keen on idea of using burst discs in the event of users wrongly filling up with more pressure than max operating. Usually go at 235 to 260bar, operate to 200bar. What they should have done but more costly 30p and a tad heavier is use thicker wall tube to withstand minimum 300bar.

 

Some air rifles i wont touch due to above manufacturing, real scary like hand it back with no more than 70bar in.

The other scary one is those that convert C02 to HPA, designed for sub 100bar, tubes rated at 160bar. Idiots shuvving 310bar in! Nice video on youtube where a knock open valve let go, surprise surprise.

Bottom line it would serve the tatters right if things went up on them, its not that the problem is to those around either at the shoot or during transit.

 

Its not hard to do a pressure test of these vessels, less than 3 people do it in UK. Most diving cylinder test places could undertake such a test if they have the fittings.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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