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Matt

Wooden stocks or metal?

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So what are people's thoughts, is a metal stock the best option or is a good wooden stock the best?

 

Am asking for off the peg rifles and as a separate question for bespoke fitted stock.

 

Matt

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Wood doesn’t appeal to me with exception of the FTP stock but I love my Jon Harris metal stock

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All right if you like scrap iron Darron ??? HOLLY

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Personally for target work I like a metal stock, but a sorted one like Jon’s.

Laminate is ok but feels bulky to me after the sleekness of a metal stock.

I think the ONE stock is a step in the right direction though needs the Jon treatment to make it consistent.

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Never seen the sense of hanging gear off a pressure cylinder that changes shape and then strapping it to the barrel. Suggests a designer that doesn’t understand what they are designing. 

 

Stocks will evolve again over the next few years as the forward thinking manufacturers start junking metal cylinders. Walther already doing this. 

 

Then it will be down to where the weight is and where it can be put rather than where a moulding left it and where you can squeeze in the adjustment. Some of the off the shelf stuff is woeful. 

 

Why do most guns have 6” of stuff hanging off the front of the gun they never ever use except to maybe screw up their POI?

 

You get a different feel with the material but that can be changed again with the bedding interface. There’s no right answer just preference. But ideally you need a stock design that you aren’t making up for deficiencies with to start with. 

 

Things like hooks and grips are also very important. Anschutz had it not too bad but from the next evolution now seemingly cannot resist throwing out function to replace with looks. Mec ok but haven’t evolved. Gemini more adjustment but hard to do and set. Future development limited by Issf rules which some manufacturers are trying to find a way around and thus development will suffer. See the short cut now for 3p is to swap entire rear end including grip for each position. 

 

Its because the Issf and German manufacturers snuggle up. The factories are happy because they don’t have to design a solution for adaptability they just make 3 expensive parts which you are attracted to buy. Issf happy because they can squeeze a convoluted finals procedure into something maybe tv friendly. 

 

At the other end of the scale you have people cooing over a design copied for the last 2 decades and just picked up by the latest person willing to undercut. 

 

There is no magic bullet but some of the biggest improvements will not be the material used but how it’s used. And I don’t see that changing soon. Look at the 9015 One. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I'm old fashioned...I grew up in Basque country with fine English guns (Holland, Purdey , Rigby, Boss) and think of a gun like a precision shooting instrument, but beauty is very important to me and nothing is more beautiful than a pretty wooden stock...I have several of the good target guns with modern metallic stocks: Anschutz 9015, Steyr LG-110 with the FT metal stock and a wood FT stock  made by Ginb, a FWB 700 aluminum in red for ISSF 10 M  and all of these stocks are OK and have all the bells and whistles but they lack the classy look of a fine wooden stock. 

 

I just finished a new project with a RAW TM-1000 ...I used the nicest exhibition French Walnut available I could find, made several changes to the stock and personally highly tuned the gun...It is very well balanced and shoots like a dream....This gun (using my finger)  shot a 749 competing in BR at 25 M outdoors last Friday, with swirling winds; then on Saturday afternoon I shot a good round of FT and loved the balance of the gun... If interested here are some pictures (make sure you see both parts: 1 & 2)

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?98962-Wanted-to-share-my-new-project-(Part-1)

 

This is the last BR target shot in BR...(250 with  I believe 11 or 12 X's)

 

Regards,

 

AZ

Light Varmint.JPG

Edited by azuaro

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Looks like a beautiful rifle, good shooting as well at 25 yards indoor or out?

 

 

6.jpg

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Nice bit of wood ??? HOLLY

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Posted (edited)

Wood????

Yes Holly, all wood but I have to confess that the wood blank was worth much more than the gun itself...

 

"Looks like a beautiful rifle, good shooting as well at 25 yards indoor or out?"

Thank you...We shot outdoors at 25 Meters, this gun shot two 250's and a 249 with 7-9 MPH swirly winds...It is going to sound presumptuous but shooting BR indoors at 25 Meters is no fun with the accuracy that some of these guns produce,  250 becomes the norm and you are only struggling for shooting X's...  

Shooting BR at 50 Meters goes the other way, the guns are still very accurate but the scores are a gamble, all dependent on wind...

 

This is where we shoot....There was like an hour where the wind calmed down and we took advantage and shot the Springers (FWB 300 S) ...Note the flags on the flag pole above the dock behind the benches, this tells you the kinds of wind we usually have...Also note that we have 32 miles of lake - wind  that ends on a concrete wall that goes 4-5 ft. below ground level, the winds hitting this wall at water level swirl up and encounter the wind that has the same direction but no wall obstruction making it very challenging to estimate wind.

L1010019.jpg

1.jpg

Edited by azuaro

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BR challenges the rifle and ammo but not the shooter . at least to me .you have a perfectly good wood there . trees to hang targets on . get your bean bags and your behinds in there is my advice . for some real shooting ???  HOLLY

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, holly said:

BR challenges the rifle and ammo but not the shooter . at least to me .you have a perfectly good wood there . trees to hang targets on . get your bean bags and your behinds in there is my advice . for some real shooting ???  HOLLY

 

I do that quite often Holly,  but I can not speak of the gun's accuracy if I plug in my flat butt and shaky finger to the equation! 😪The guy shooting in those pics is not me, it is Jeff Crisler who is a USA National Champion and 3rd place at the famous Extreme Benchrest of Arizona...He pushes the envelope hard!

Edited by azuaro

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Then do not accept the Flat Butt and shaky finger . do not accept your weaknesses . rant , rail , train and try . cos trying is what it is all about . winning is a product of trying . ??? HOLLY

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On 6/12/2018 at 9:41 PM, holly said:

BR challenges the rifle and ammo but not the shooter . at least to me .you have a perfectly good wood there . trees to hang targets on . get your bean bags and your behinds in there is my advice . for some real shooting ???  HOLLY

 

You say that but it is deceptively difficult especially with air rifles out doors.

We have a Club BR at ETL and I'm sure that everyone who did the first one was fully expecting to knock the pipper out of every single target after all it's rested at 25yds right?

I think everyone was amazed just how badly they did and that wasn't for lack of trying.

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I'm not keen on wooden stocks, they remind me of my grandmothers best room and the sideboard that sat in there, she gave it me when I got my first house. I waited until she went home and then burnt it down the garden!

 

I hate the lines on the Ataman/Tzar, awful looking thing. Same with the new Atom, makes the gun look dated.

 

Having said that I've just got this:

 

small.thumb.jpg.539c70af147c757da5c10c047a9403a8.jpg

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“I'm not keen on wooden stocks, they remind me of my grandmothers best room and the sideboard that sat in there, she gave it me when I got my first house. I waited until she went home and then burnt it down the garden!”

 

your an ungrateful twonk Martin lol

 

 

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Wasn't this by any chance Martin?

Listed as £26,000 one careful (Baronal owner).

You don't think this could be Holly selling off all his family furniture to fund his rifle tinkering do you?  :rolleyes:

dealer_graver_highres_1525004769652-8223

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A wooden stock is to be cherished and polished . a metal stock is to melted down and used as a fence post ??? HOLLY

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12 hours ago, holly said:

A wooden stock is to be cherished and polished . a metal stock is to melted down and used as a fence post ??? HOLLY

 

...and you’d know all about fence posts right?

I reckon you must have a paddocks worths out back now...🤔

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Walnut dear boy , walnut ??? HOLLY

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Best stock i ever saw they dont make em like it any more.51242334.jpg?w968h681

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Ancester of yours Jon . family resemblance i can see . it is the evil look in his eye that does it ??? HOLLY

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13 hours ago, Jon said:

Best stock i ever saw they dont make em like it any more.51242334.jpg?w968h681

 

I especially like the way they’re willing to give him a pussy...🤣

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Of course we’re missing out on 3D printed stocks aka the Jonathon Noon specials...😉

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I would agree with almost every word there Rob.

Problem is the designers with lack of knowledge and or unwillingness to design and build what the customer wants just taking the easy route.

 

Big difference to looking nice to feeling right,  all judge stock on looks not performance of which there can be monstrous disasters.

Biggest is the lack of bedding in by the Germans, only one way to do it, do it right or not at all.

 

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15 hours ago, Jon said:

Biggest is the lack of bedding in by the Germans, only one way to do it, do it right or not at all.

 

 

Fully agree Jon, plus that stupid soft-link system is just an excuse to sell over-priced washers.

So Glad I bedded my Anschutz properly...👍

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Theyre all like it bedding my Anchutz in 2005, Fen 2014 plus Walthers since 1998. External stock makers are just copying the disasters for an easy life rather than correcting or making right, none worse than the Ones.

Had to put James Woodheads right before he won the Worlds 2009.

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On 6/15/2018 at 4:25 PM, Darron said:

your an ungrateful twonk Martin lol

 

 

 

 

No mate just a brutal minimalist who just doesn't like sideboards or those new stocks with "ear scoops" I would like to design a stock tho but I'm just not keen on wood or old-fashioned looking things. I don't think I've ever seen a wooden stock and gone "that looks great".

 

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5 hours ago, PelletOnPellet said:

 

No mate just a brutal minimalist who just doesn't like sideboards or those new stocks with "ear scoops" I would like to design a stock tho but I'm just not keen on wood or old-fashioned looking things. I don't think I've ever seen a wooden stock and gone "that looks great".

 

I think only the FTP stock looks great in wood

 

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Now let me think ? what happened to Darrons FTP ? oh yes it has gone the way of the Do Do . errr same as colins , i seem to remember , errr and Nats Ev2 . now let me think . what are these boys and girls using now ? hhhhm oh yes what i told em a shutz . ??? HOLLY

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1 hour ago, holly said:

Now let me think ? what happened to Darrons FTP ? oh yes it has gone the way of the Do Do . errr same as colins , i seem to remember , errr and Nats Ev2 . now let me think . what are these boys and girls using now ? hhhhm oh yes what i told em a shutz . ??? HOLLY

 

Not sure about Daz’s FTP but he’s certainly better off with his 9015/March combo, not many people have cleared a National 50 target course. 

As you know I struggled with the FTP for a couple of years but if I’d managed to find a decent Anschutz it would never have crossed my palms...🤣

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