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Matt

Anschutz roll of honour

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Posted (edited)

Hi Matt,

 

I sell one thing and that thing is my time, simple as that and it's worth noting that I can only sell that once.

 

At the moment there isn't a function in B.O.B to input gear info by hand and it's not really something you could just knock up, it needs thinking about and planning, so far apart from yourself, no-one has really asked for this info but if you look at our enough of photo's from each event from myself, Simon and Rob you could find everyone you needed within an hour.

 

And sure, I do charge for my pictures for professional use because again my time and money is spent supporting the sport and I believe that has some value plus the gear and the server I use doesn't come for free. I probably spend about 1K a year of my own money pushing FT and suspect Rob's and Bri's bill is about the same.

Edited by PelletOnPellet

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15 hours ago, Matt said:

Hi Rob,

 

To answer your points:

 

I don't know what you mean by the names of shooters working in sales?

 

Maybe I could have done the work but rather than me speculate as to whether they were using an Anschutz or not it's better to have cold hard facts and the only way to get them would be from the shooters themselves or indeed an Association like the BFTA, EFTA, etc.  As an example I had forgotten about Beryl and Jenny winning the ladies titles, aloso unsure of the overseas ladies who have won the title and what they may have been using - is it actually called the "ladies world champion" or something else?

 

With regards EFTA - had no contact what so ever.  BFTA and worlds I take on board your point I won't make the same mistake again with that one.

 

With regards recompense it would seem the BFTA / EFTA  (EFTA are a sub section of the BFTA aren't they?) are going very corporate and money oriented - guess as a potential sponsor we should look at what benefit we get from certain events in more detail thanks for the heads up on this. 

 

When I mentioned you I was probably meaning people in general not you as in Rob.  I guess I used AirArms as another name and hence if I wanted to contact AirArms I would email them direct, life is this simple.

 

Nope, never declined a place in the Walther team - never been asked to be in the Walther team.  Been asked to act as a representative for them - similar vein to Frank Esser, but never been asked to be in the team.

 

With regards spares again, I won't do the he said she said if you personally wanted spares - I didn't know you had a Anschutz - but I'm guessing its a converted rifle so I would first of all point you in the direction of whomever converted the rifle and let them deal with it.  I know Jon offers to look after all of the rifles he has worked on - the reason we ask you to go through the person who did the conversion is that we are not aware of what may have been modded on the rifle so it's always best for any requests for spares to go through where you got it from.

 

I think I'll make the decision and just start the roll of honour from this year - it's easier to validate the info thus makes more sense.  If others can prove they won x shoot and it can be independently verified then I'll add them.

 

With regards Dan, he's looking good for this year as are a few others so we will have to wait and see.  Will also have to speak to the BFTA and see what their costs are for the photo?

 

I may actually write a post up about how to get sponsored, hopefully it may help a few people achieve this - though I will say you have to be careful what you wish for as it isn't all sunshine and roses.  Are many people sponsored in FT - I don't mean sponsored as in shoot for a team (as far as I'm aware they get clothing and pellets maybe free servicing) - I mean actually sponsored?

 

regards,

 

Matt

 

 


Sorry Matt, think wires are getting crossed.

I don't know what you mean by the names of shooters working in sales? No, I assume you would know the names of shooters, you working in sales... ie you know who you sold rifles to.

With regards to the EFTA, yes I can see you've made no contact... but that is what you need to do if you want something arranged for the worlds. If you don't, no problem, but we can't predict if you do or don't so we need you to let us know you're interested so we can go from there. In the past you came forward with an offer of sponsorship for when the team went out to SA so same sort of thing, if you get in touch we can respond.

I don't think the BFTA/EFTA are getting more money orientated. You were made aware of ball park cost of running the event some time ago on here and the BFTA have costs as well. Those need to be met. But, in my opinion, there does need to be some sort of basic agreement that when a shooter asks what did we get for that sponsorship the organisations can respond, even if that answer is only given at committee level. This isn't something new, this has been something documented for as long as I can remember, if your on the board at the BFTA and ask what AA did for X shoot, or BASC etc then there's a documented answer.

As far as the costs are concerned for a photo, I think probably what would work is nuturing a mutually beneficial relationship so that the trade gets what it wants and so does the sport. But that does require some forethought and planning from both sides, after the event is too late.

I don't have an Anschutz. I was asked if I could get spares for one. That's where I started. I have no idea about who did the conversion and with the age of some rifles it might be questionable how reliable that info is anyway. Is there a policy not to support rifles that are grey imports/conversions like Steyr have? If so that might account for the apparent delays, but not sure why it took Germany a week to respond... it would be good to know this, I lined up another source that comes direct from Germany with a turnaround of around a week but if we do or don't need that it would be good to know.

 

My recollection was that you were captaining the Walther team or trying to, and then someone else was, and then I had a PM from you that you couldn't continue for ' contractual obligations '... I think it was a Walther springer. I'll dig out the PM, if it's not correct, apologies.

Sounds good about the roll of honour and sponsorship article. That would get good traction, nice page on Anschutz's website like others do on their official page, some professional photos taken etc... would be nice for the sport... after all when James won the worlds I think there was a short re-release of the 2002 and James ended up with an EV2 so there's definitely benefit to the manufacturers to get behind the shooters in some way. As far as I know companies like Daystate have sponsored shooters with cash and rifles. Intershoot run a sponsorship scheme and I know Walther sponsor shooters with kit JSB with ammunition. All individuals.

I'd like to see Dan win this year. But then I'd also like to see Neil lift it or Jack do it 3x in a row. 3 different shooters, 3 different gun makes all in the top 3 and a standard of shooting that is superbly high. I would think that it's something the trade could get behind. Two world champions split by Neil... there's a story there.





 

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Hi Martin, Rob,

 

I think the issue I have is theres a blurred line somewhat - its been mentioned if I sponsor the BFTA I could get access to things - then we now have Martin charging for his time - I assume Rob; you and Brian do the same?  So do I pay the BFTA and then you guys invoice them for your time or do I pay you and without sponsoring the BFTA the stats are updated with rifles scopes etc and I get some pictures?  Or do I have to pay all three of you and the BFTA - then for the worlds I sponsor the EFTA as well, no doubt pay the WFTF and also have to pay individuals for pics from the event?  Seems I may have to ask for a blank cheque made payable to whomever wants it.

 

Regards my lack of contact to the EFTA, every other year the organising body has made contact with the trade advising what they could offer (different packages of sponsorship if you will)- has something changed?  Dialogue is a two way process and certainly looking at my first paragraph if we were to sponsor the BFTA, Martin, Brian and yourself the EFTA will probably get nothing - there is not an endless supply of money available unfortunately.

 

Me working in sales, no I don't I am a systems developer for a building brickwork support manufacturer and also work part time for RUAG just not in sales.

 

For Walther now you've jogged my memory I was approached about helping to set a team up (not shoot for it though) many years ago - I said I couldn't do it so I think I asked you who you would recommend to act as a captain and organise the team.  If memory serves me right I approached Mike Williams and gave him the contact details of the guy at Walther.  Think I also got some clothing for Justin Wood and Simon Ayres and gave it to them at the euros that year?  I was then re-approached by Walther later on and again declined their offer as I was involved with RUAG by then.

 

With regards spares - again it's difficult to pre-empt the spares required - also the various modders use different O-Rings and do different things to the rifles so I would always advocate talking to the person who has done the mod in the first place.  Unfortunately this also adds a time delay but is the best route forward.  I will say having 8 different modders of the 10m rifle and one factory conversion was never my idea but unfortunately you can't stop people jumping on the bandwagon.

 

I didn't know Daystate sponsored shooters with cash - I remember reading a post by Phil Johansen about someone buying Daystate hats for the team as they had only a limited budget for sponsorship of I think £5000 and they'd spent it all?  Certainly Richard Beaugie and Steve Franklin said they'd had very little contact with Daystate when I talked to them at the Welsh GP - so am not sure who is getting paid by them.  Again with sponsorship, if events are getting bigger and requiring more money to sponsor then unfortunately the pot to sponsor individuals certainly disappears rapidly - Maybe I'll look and have a think which is the best route and recommend that????

 

Yes theres a few people up there that could win, only at the halfway point so all to play for.

 

Matt

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Matt said:

Hi Martin, Rob,

 

I think the issue I have is theres a blurred line somewhat - its been mentioned if I sponsor the BFTA I could get access to things - then we now have Martin charging for his time - I assume Rob; you and Brian do the same?  So do I pay the BFTA and then you guys invoice them for your time or do I pay you and without sponsoring the BFTA the stats are updated with rifles scopes etc and I get some pictures?  Or do I have to pay all three of you and the BFTA - then for the worlds I sponsor the EFTA as well, no doubt pay the WFTF and also have to pay individuals for pics from the event?  Seems I may have to ask for a blank cheque made payable to whomever wants it.

  

Regards my lack of contact to the EFTA, every other year the organising body has made contact with the trade advising what they could offer (different packages of sponsorship if you will)- has something changed?  Dialogue is a two way process and certainly looking at my first paragraph if we were to sponsor the BFTA, Martin, Brian and yourself the EFTA will probably get nothing - there is not an endless supply of money available unfortunately.

 

Me working in sales, no I don't I am a systems developer for a building brickwork support manufacturer and also work part time for RUAG just not in sales.

 

For Walther now you've jogged my memory I was approached about helping to set a team up (not shoot for it though) many years ago - I said I couldn't do it so I think I asked you who you would recommend to act as a captain and organise the team.  If memory serves me right I approached Mike Williams and gave him the contact details of the guy at Walther.  Think I also got some clothing for Justin Wood and Simon Ayres and gave it to them at the euros that year?  I was then re-approached by Walther later on and again declined their offer as I was involved with RUAG by then.

 

With regards spares - again it's difficult to pre-empt the spares required - also the various modders use different O-Rings and do different things to the rifles so I would always advocate talking to the person who has done the mod in the first place.  Unfortunately this also adds a time delay but is the best route forward.  I will say having 8 different modders of the 10m rifle and one factory conversion was never my idea but unfortunately you can't stop people jumping on the bandwagon.

 

I didn't know Daystate sponsored shooters with cash - I remember reading a post by Phil Johansen about someone buying Daystate hats for the team as they had only a limited budget for sponsorship of I think £5000 and they'd spent it all?  Certainly Richard Beaugie and Steve Franklin said they'd had very little contact with Daystate when I talked to them at the Welsh GP - so am not sure who is getting paid by them.  Again with sponsorship, if events are getting bigger and requiring more money to sponsor then unfortunately the pot to sponsor individuals certainly disappears rapidly - Maybe I'll look and have a think which is the best route and recommend that????

 

Yes theres a few people up there that could win, only at the halfway point so all to play for.

 

Matt


Hi Matt,

I'm not sure what you mean about a blurred line.

It's been mentioned that if you sponsor the BFTA you could have access to certain things? I think it would help to know what certain things you're referring to because being vague causes the blurriness. Be specific, what is it that you want? Why are you suggesting you need to pay me for what the BFTA has? I'm not the BFTA. If you want something the BFTA has contact them and they can tell you what they require. If it's something that someone personally like me or someone else has spent their time and money doing for their own purposes then it's not the BFTA it's whoever owns what you want... again it's a very simple straightforward conversation, you state what you want and they (whoever they may be) will say what they want in return.

But as I said before, what you want is the names of Anschutz shooters and what they won. You know who shot Anschutz over the years, you know where the results are, and it shouldn't take long to get in touch with them to double check they used the rifles for those titles... that's something you can do without paying a penny, just costs you a little bit of time and maybe some phone credit.

I have no idea who 'the trade' is and where they live... it's not some collective. We (the EFTA) do however have an idea of the companies that have already expressed an interest and ones we hope to partner with. Many approached us because like you they were at the worlds and knew we were getting it in 2019. We've got a great venue, masses of interest, and some pretty good opportunities for the trade.

But I cannot dictate who 'you' sponsor. I don't know why you are refering to myself as being sponsored somehow that gets in the way of other sponsorship for major bodies in the sport. If you're planning a sponsorship campaign you have an idea of who you want to sponsor, and how much with... the fact that there are some other people like me, Brian and Martin, that exist, that haven't been contacted, that don't do advertising for sponsorship and that we somehow might get in the way of an EFTA deal seems to suggest that you've contacted us and that after that conversation there wasn't anything left for the EFTA. Have I missed something in my inbox that was passed on to Brian and Martin and that's why the EFTA doesn't have anything left? I didn't think the BFTA had anything in place either so not sure how I'm even in the frame. Far be it for me to say how you spend your resources but I'd suggest the EFTA and BFTA would be further up your list, if only that Dan looks like he's doing quite well... but I guess it's too late for 2018.

Sorry Matt, when you said " What I mean by me and Kev, well we both work for RUAG - Kev fulltime sales and me part time" i thought you were making the distinction between you being part time sales and Kev full time sales, not you not working in sales. My mistake I got the wrong end of the stick. I assumed when you were at gun shows and the worlds last year with a table with an Anschutz that it was for sales. Apologies.

That's partly my recollection. You mentioned Mike but mentioned the contract thing so I assume that's when something else kicked in... I hadn't realised your position wasn't to shoot though... 

That's understood regarding the modders. That must be a headache. I hadn't specified what I was after, just who could get spares. So just we avoid this filter, who should I contact to get a generic off the shelf straight forward part for an un-modded Anschutz air rifle and within reason what is the expected time from order to delivery for the average item?

If events are getting bigger then it's not a case that they require more sponsorship, it's the opportunities for the sponsor are greater, in simple terms they get more. If you're sponsoring a shoot with 50 people in region one winter it obviously doesn't have the reach of an international event with 450 competitors does with visitors from over a 40 possible countries that all get to see your product and information and take it back to every continent on the planet. That has a value which is recognised by the trade and they can offset the costs they may bear with the rewards they may gain. 

As far as shooters, I've spoken (and still do) to shooters who have had direct sponsorship. Cash and items. I don't think it's enough to live on and I think they're just happy to be ambassadors for those companies and there's a little help to make that easier as a reflection for what their achievements and profile and do for the brand.


So if you want something, then probably (as I'm fore-ever saying) the best way to do it is approach those who have it, stick it in writing and do a deal. But for the record I don't need the cash, but I don't give away my personal work for free. All I ask is whatever I negotiate goes to the sport, ie the organisation/s. So if you want a photo/s from the past that i've taken, let me know, and i'll let you know what Ruag can supply in return. If you want to have something to do with the Worlds 2019 then let me know and I'll pass you our Trade Liaison person... he's up your way (ish) so hopefully easy to chat to. For all I know he might have already made contact... we'll have an update in about a month :)
 

Edited by robF

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12 hours ago, Matt said:

Hi Martin, Rob,

 

I think the issue I have is theres a blurred line somewhat - its been mentioned if I sponsor the BFTA I could get access to things - then we now have Martin charging for his time - I assume Rob; you and Brian do the same?  So do I pay the BFTA and then you guys invoice them for your time or do I pay you and without sponsoring the BFTA the stats are updated with rifles scopes etc and I get some pictures?  Or do I have to pay all three of you and the BFTA - then for the worlds I sponsor the EFTA as well, no doubt pay the WFTF and also have to pay individuals for pics from the event?  Seems I may have to ask for a blank cheque made payable to whomever wants it.

 

Regards my lack of contact to the EFTA, every other year the organising body has made contact with the trade advising what they could offer (different packages of sponsorship if you will)- has something changed?  Dialogue is a two way process and certainly looking at my first paragraph if we were to sponsor the BFTA, Martin, Brian and yourself the EFTA will probably get nothing - there is not an endless supply of money available unfortunately.

 

Me working in sales, no I don't I am a systems developer for a building brickwork support manufacturer and also work part time for RUAG just not in sales.

 

For Walther now you've jogged my memory I was approached about helping to set a team up (not shoot for it though) many years ago - I said I couldn't do it so I think I asked you who you would recommend to act as a captain and organise the team.  If memory serves me right I approached Mike Williams and gave him the contact details of the guy at Walther.  Think I also got some clothing for Justin Wood and Simon Ayres and gave it to them at the euros that year?  I was then re-approached by Walther later on and again declined their offer as I was involved with RUAG by then.

 

With regards spares - again it's difficult to pre-empt the spares required - also the various modders use different O-Rings and do different things to the rifles so I would always advocate talking to the person who has done the mod in the first place.  Unfortunately this also adds a time delay but is the best route forward.  I will say having 8 different modders of the 10m rifle and one factory conversion was never my idea but unfortunately you can't stop people jumping on the bandwagon.

 

I didn't know Daystate sponsored shooters with cash - I remember reading a post by Phil Johansen about someone buying Daystate hats for the team as they had only a limited budget for sponsorship of I think £5000 and they'd spent it all?  Certainly Richard Beaugie and Steve Franklin said they'd had very little contact with Daystate when I talked to them at the Welsh GP - so am not sure who is getting paid by them.  Again with sponsorship, if events are getting bigger and requiring more money to sponsor then unfortunately the pot to sponsor individuals certainly disappears rapidly - Maybe I'll look and have a think which is the best route and recommend that????

 

Yes theres a few people up there that could win, only at the halfway point so all to play for.

 

Matt

 

Matt, seriously, what is wrong with you?

 

To be clear I have nothing to do with sponsorship and if you are serious about sponsorship then talk to the BFTA instead of posting up on a forum all the time.

 

With regards payment, if you or Raug want to use my pictures in a professional way that I expect to be treated that way. I've sold a lot of pictures in my time and I know how it works. I've had a lifetime as a professional designer of people giving me the old likes of "for experience" and "great exposure". Raug is a multi-million pound business, maybe it should look at hiring someone instead of moaning on internet forums, it's not a good look.

 

Second, the photographs are my copyright and have nothing to do with The BFTA. I allow PoP, AirGunWorld and The BFTA use my pictures for the good of the sport. I also allow individuals to download copies as well because I'm a good egg.

 

On average, I spend about 24hrs a week working on the sport and promoting it and the only thing I've ever charged for is 20+ of pictures to magazines and for getting an extra programmer in to do work that I'm to busy with my real job to do.

 

So there you have it but if I was doing sponsorship, I'd be seriously questioning whether dealing with you was actually worth the hassle.

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ok agreed, time to leave alone.

 

Matt

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Damn!!! Ive just bought popcorn!!! Ah well back to stb for the great prepayment debate (that wasnt asked for)

  • Haha 1

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Ahh but dave . there would of course have to be a Discount for pre payment . surely . so that would be good . say 20 % off ??? HOLLY

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14 hours ago, holly said:

Ahh but dave . there would of course have to be a Discount for pre payment . surely . so that would be good . say 20 % off ??? HOLLY

 

For senialty?  🤔

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No for Knackered 9003 shooters , with shiny guns ??? HOLLY

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On 6/30/2018 at 11:14 AM, holly said:

No for Knackered 9003 shooters , with shiny guns ??? HOLLY

 

Did you get dazzled, if not I must polish it more...:rolleyes:

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never saw it colin , thank god . shiny FT rifles . no . no , no ??? HOLLY

 

PS Walnut rules .

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7 hours ago, holly said:

never saw it colin , thank god . shiny FT rifles . no . no , no ??? HOLLY

 

PS Walnut rules .

 

...until it gets wet...🤣

You had enough troubles with that ‘match’ trigger of yours without adding stock warp into the mix...😁

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I have told you colin . the steyr sits in it's own chassis . no warp ??? HOLLY

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4 hours ago, holly said:

I have told you colin . the steyr sits in it's own chassis . no warp ??? HOLLY

 

Ok....:rolleyes:

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At last ??? HOLLY

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11 hours ago, holly said:

At last ??? HOLLY

 

You been on that loo for the past three hours already?

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