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Darron

I Fear A Rule Change is Imminent!!

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I’ve never called a Target because I thought I’ve had a split. I like most have been doing it long enough now to know when the pellet has hit the kill or it’s a splinter of the pellet that marks the paddle. The only time I'll call a Target is if I sit down and can see that the Target isn’t straight and there’s a gap between the paddle and the face plate and that is before I take the shot. I think a lot of it is some people think that they couldn’t have possibly missed the Target. 

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1 hour ago, springboy said:

 I think a lot of it is some people think that they couldn’t have possibly missed the Target. 

 

 

You Called ??? HOLLY

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I guarantee that by the Worlds 2019 there will be a robust rule in place for target calling, so the various individuals and Countries who think it’s sporting to call all missed targets are in for a shock...👍

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Thats where the yellow card comes in and logged against the caller.

They will think very hard before blatantly calling, if they do and found targets fine yellow card. Two yellows your off so could be dismissed on a lane.

 

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It’s a bit like footballers rolling around on the floor after getting tapped in the ankle. You’ll find some nations worse than others. 

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17 hours ago, Jon said:

Thats where the yellow card comes in and logged against the caller.

They will think very hard before blatantly calling, if they do and found targets fine yellow card. Two yellows your off so could be dismissed on a lane.

 


The problem is, if you have a competition of 225 shooters in one session, like Poland, it only takes 1/10 people to call once, and that's 22 calls, and you have the same situation. So if you have a target which shooters think is faulty, for whatever reason, and keep calling, and it's not, but they keep calling, the yellow card doesn't do anything because if it's one target they won't make a second call.

What we need to do is make shooters realise that calling a target (without clear confidence that it's faulty) gives them or others no benefit (which it can be used to do at the moment) and that overall it hinders the competition.

So it doesn't need something hefty, just something that says "are you sure you want to call, because if it isn't faulty, you lose"... which might make a proportion think "hmm maybe it was a split, or maybe i didn't see it land"... and then not call. And obviously not sit in the lane having a debate about it either because that's now against the rules as well.

 

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as was said earlier Rob . if you call a target and there is nothing wrong with it . then you lose the next target as well . seems sensible to me , probably only needed at GPs and the worlds ??? HOLLY

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25 minutes ago, holly said:

as was said earlier Rob . if you call a target and there is nothing wrong with it . then you lose the next target as well . seems sensible to me , probably only needed at GPs and the worlds ??? HOLLY

...sounds perfect for the Carrisbroke mob to stop all those Wednesday afternoon claims about only dropping three over the course when in fact the 'shoot it until it drops' rule was in force...:grin:

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Yeh, sounds fair to me.

Although I probably have a rep for rules I really don't think they are needed unless there's a problem. In GP's and WL's I don't see that as being a problem. Target calls tend to be for pretty valid reasons, snags, strings, obstructions and targets that have moved. On a well drilled course they can all be really minimised to the point of elimination.
 

I have been told that calling was an old time tactic, but I've not seen it in FT at GP's or the WL leagues i've done, so it's probably in the past. I've only done a couple of MFTA/SWEFTA in recent years but CSFTA has been pretty good for all the time I've been doing it, the standard of course building is good these days and each year the level gets better.



 

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2 minutes ago, robF said:

Yeh, sounds fair to me.

Although I probably have a rep for rules I really don't think they are needed unless there's a problem. In GP's and WL's I don't see that as being a problem. Target calls tend to be for pretty valid reasons, snags, strings, obstructions and targets that have moved. On a well drilled course they can all be really minimised to the point of elimination.
 

I have been told that calling was an old time tactic, but I've not seen it in FT at GP's or the WL leagues i've done, so it's probably in the past. I've only done a couple of MFTA/SWEFTA in recent years but CSFTA has been pretty good for all the time I've been doing it, the standard of course building is good these days and each year the level gets better.
 

 

There were a few in the past that tried it on but they were quickly weeded out as no one like stoppages especially when it's the same person for the fifth time in as many lanes. We had a particularly rampant example in SEFTA and you would dread shooting round with him as virtually every miss was called.

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1 hour ago, robF said:

Yeh, sounds fair to me.

Although I probably have a rep for rules I really don't think they are needed unless there's a problem. In GP's and WL's I don't see that as being a problem. Target calls tend to be for pretty valid reasons, snags, strings, obstructions and targets that have moved. On a well drilled course they can all be really minimised to the point of elimination.
 

I have been told that calling was an old time tactic, but I've not seen it in FT at GP's or the WL leagues i've done, so it's probably in the past. I've only done a couple of MFTA/SWEFTA in recent years but CSFTA has been pretty good for all the time I've been doing it, the standard of course building is good these days and each year the level gets better.



 

Quite agree Rob.

Think from memory the last 3 years whistles have been for tangled strings, brambles have that habit, mainly. 

Can only think of 1 round over those years that was for a target.

 

I go through a what went well, what can be improved process after every WL shoot held at Carisbrooke. Checking of targets the day before and the morning if it definitely helps minimise the dreaded whistle.

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Yep not a problem in FT at the mo . can't remember the last time i called a target . just get on with it . after all it is not life and death . no huge money prizes ??? HOLLY 

 

PS ahh yes i do . it was at west london rangers . winter league . 52 yard target , that wallybig  dave . put up a tree . nice bit of wind on it left to right . got it smack centre . watched it go down and then watched it come back up again .hey , do what .big  dave had put a really heavy string on it and the weight reset the target . 

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17 hours ago, holly said:

Yep not a problem in FT at the mo . can't remember the last time i called a target . just get on with it . after all it is not life and death . no huge money prizes ??? HOLLY 

 

PS ahh yes i do . it was at west london rangers . winter league . 52 yard target , that wallybig  dave . put up a tree . nice bit of wind on it left to right . got it smack centre . watched it go down and then watched it come back up again .hey , do what .big  dave had put a really heavy string on it and the weight reset the target . 

 

You sure it wasn't a ricochet off the paddle, very enlightening thread on StB about just that...:grin:  

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If you call a target and it's found to be not faulty you lose that lane, and the next lane too. Thats  4 down for a duff call. That would make em think twice about calling. ( would ruffle a few feathers too) 😄

 

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23 minutes ago, DTM said:

If you call a target and it's found to be not faulty you lose that lane, and the next lane too. Thats  4 down for a duff call. That would make em think twice about calling. ( would ruffle a few feathers too) 😄

 

 

A bit harsh, a popular suggestion is to lose the lane you're in if the target is tested as ok, that's bad enough.

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Can't lose the lane you're in, what happens if you miss both targets before you call?

We don't need to ruffle feathers, that doesn't help anyone, we're just looking for a fair solution to a problem.

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2 hours ago, Eaton Rifles said:

 

You sure it wasn't a ricochet off the paddle, very enlightening thread on StB about just that...:grin:  

 

No the target plate went right back , then the weight of the string pulled it back into battery . Pat ( kent woodsmen ) never saw it happen so he marked me down as a miss . grrrr . needless to say richard and helen ( following )  both awarded them selves the target . grrrr ??? HOLLY

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I know they have been discussed before but the more I think about it the more interesting it sounds..to me at least.

 

So what about a black paddle in free air supported on a side on rib (3mm wide) that essentially minimises any metal that can be hit by mistake, behind this a fixed plate set far enough back such that the falling paddle is clear of it, this yellow back plate is to allow misses to be seen.

 

Whats interesting is you dont get the traditional split, with current silhouettes you split on the front plate, which stiffens up the cam mechanism momentarily, the split piece of pellet goes through the hole and may or may not have enough energy to push the paddle enough to overcome the possibly locked mechanism.

 

With a free floating paddle I would think even very light splits (which are now splitting on the paddle not the face plate) would knock it over as it doesnt have to overcome the large front plate that may be locked? 

 

Someone could still claim they split on the paddle and it didnt go over - the back plate could be floated so it rings like a bell a ding is a miss!

 

I will make one to show you what I mean.

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Interesting , but what would be the cost of these targets ??? HOLLY

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Jeez, its a concept not a finished business proposition 😁

 

I will have a play and report back 😉 

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I like the paddle only idea. No backplates to give anyone an indication of misses or wind direction :) No splits its either down or not. As long as the build quality is good, less whistles.

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We have one at our club . i don't really find any difference shooting it ??? HOLLY

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You will have to explain that word "MISS "  not something i do ??? HOLLY:Spike

 

PS does it mean a young lady ?

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, lol moore said:

 

 

So what about a black paddle in free air supported on a side on rib (3mm wide) that essentially minimises any metal that can be hit by mistake,

 

Maybe a very small narrow fixed front plate in front of the rib so that it cant be hit at all? Angle it so on the off chance it does get hit it directs the pellets downwards. Obviously this then reintroduces the minute possibility of a split but its better than having an exposed rib that if hit could potentially knock the paddle over.

Edited by SteveC200

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Andy is like the old elephant ? he never forgets ??? HOLLY

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Had a play and happy to report I have an idea😉

 

Lets first think about what happens with a split currently, the pellet hits the edge of the hole and a portion of its energy is lost into the plate (possibly as said earlier locking the faceplate so making it harder for the target to then go over). The deformed pellet or a piece of the split pellet goes through the hole, by definition carrying less energy and strikes the paddle. So only a portion of the energy carried to the target is trying to knock it over.

 

So why not put the paddle in front of the plate.

 

Not as I suggested earlier, i.e. a traditional target simply with no metal surrounding the paddle, but the same mechanism with the paddle being struck first.

 

Here is the prototype, its not perfect (only took 15 minutes to bodge) but it goes over most times and resets most times...some more thought on bearing surfaces and lever lengths could sort that - ignore the sizes....its a 60mm kill 🤤

 

Splitover Target

 

So thinking about a split now the split is on the paddle edge so any energy there goes into knocking the target over, the deformed pellet or piece of the split goes onto the plate which is hopefully unlocked and on its way?

 

Worth some more tinkering time I think 😎

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Have you tried it with a light pellet , at 55 yrds ?  i am wondering if the metal to metal of the rod passing through the plate gives it any resistance ??? HOLLY

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14 hours ago, lol moore said:

Had a play and happy to report I have an idea😉

 

Lets first think about what happens with a split currently, the pellet hits the edge of the hole and a portion of its energy is lost into the plate (possibly as said earlier locking the faceplate so making it harder for the target to then go over). The deformed pellet or a piece of the split pellet goes through the hole, by definition carrying less energy and strikes the paddle. So only a portion of the energy carried to the target is trying to knock it over.

 

So why not put the paddle in front of the plate.

 

Not as I suggested earlier, i.e. a traditional target simply with no metal surrounding the paddle, but the same mechanism with the paddle being struck first.

 

Here is the prototype, its not perfect (only took 15 minutes to bodge) but it goes over most times and resets most times...some more thought on bearing surfaces and lever lengths could sort that - ignore the sizes....its a 60mm kill 🤤

 

Splitover Target

 

So thinking about a split now the split is on the paddle edge so any energy there goes into knocking the target over, the deformed pellet or piece of the split goes onto the plate which is hopefully unlocked and on its way?

 

Worth some more tinkering time I think 😎

 

Now that is an idea worth pursuing.

Probably needs a shorter ‘pusher’ but it only needs to be in a vertical slot anyways.

Great idea!  👍🏆

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