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Feinwerkbau P70


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41 replies to this topic

#1 Matt

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Posted 04 March 2002 - 08:44 AM

Am interested in the above rifle, does anybody have any opinions of it?  How's it fare as an FT rifle? or is the Styr the way to go?

Advice from our American cousins would be appreciated, cos they've probably got more experience of it.

Matt

#2 Guest_batty_*

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Posted 04 March 2002 - 12:11 PM

there is no problem with the performance of the P70,  that rifle currently holds the world record for precision 10 meter shooting with a whopping 600x600 and the bull is only 0.5 millimeter across.

styer performs well too, the LG10p (the type i use) had the world record (of 598) for about 2 years before the P70 took over. i haven't heard much in the way of teh LG100 ;s performance yet but it should be good.

the choice of the rifle is entirely up to you in the end

hope this helps you out a little

Michelle

#3 Matt

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Posted 04 March 2002 - 02:37 PM

Michelle,

Thanks for info, more interested in what happens when the rifle is souped up a little bit 11.5 ftlbs.

Still found info interesting.

Matt

#4 Guest_batty_*

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Posted 04 March 2002 - 03:51 PM

sorry i can't help you with that i only look at the precision style rifles from precision angle if you get me

Michelle

#5 Guest_DonC_*

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Posted 06 March 2002 - 04:27 PM

Most field target shooters in the US are now buying the Steyer modified by Allen Zasadney. I have shot it several times and LOTS of guys in my club own one because we all shoot with Allen every Saturday. This rifle is sooo dead and calm, you would swear you just shot the 10 meter version. Allen also makes a flip compensator for it.
I have also shot Dave Mattick's conversion of a Walther 10 meter rifle. It also is the same quality accuracy as Allen's but I have not shot the factory version of the Walther, although I have seen it. The only thing about the Walther/factory I didn't like is that the loading probe is always pushing against a spring and you cannot feel if you are pushing a pee-wee into the bore. Dave's conversion doesn't have the spring.
As far as the P70 goes, I have heard that POI shifts resulted unless the front ring was placed on the barrel. This rifle has less barrel "purchase"in the receiver than any of the other German conversions too. But if you found one on the used market, it would be great.
The bottom line, buy one from Allen ,just like the delighted shooters in my Wisconsin club.
Don Carkhuff

#6 Matt

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Posted 07 March 2002 - 08:38 AM

Thanks for info Don.

Received an email yesterday from Feinwerkbau who said the FT version of the P-70 is out now and was referred to the uk Distributors for Feinwerkbau.

The UK distributor for Feinwerbau, who I spoke to yesterday, said they knew nothing about it being released but they knew one was in development and it had been out with various US shooters and Uk shooters for feedback.  He speculated that it would be released officially at the german trade show this week.

If I hear anything more will post it on here.

Matt

#7 Guest_MAGNUM_*

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Posted 28 March 2002 - 10:55 PM

Mat, I have been awaiting the release of the P70FT fot 12 months. FWB e-mailed me about 6 months ago to expect a Spring 2002 launch. Cant get onto the website recently, have you got the new address.
I'll check with the local FWB stockist in the next week, he seems to know whats what.

#8 Matt

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Posted 29 March 2002 - 09:58 PM

Have you tried:

http://www.feinwerkb...en/frame_en.htm

Matt

#9 Guest_NeilM_*

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Posted 30 April 2002 - 01:08 PM

I've just had a note from FWB in Germany, saying the P70FT will be released at the end of May.

I will be waiting, as I've shot the Steyr, I'm having a go at the Ev2 this week, and the FWB is the last on the list, although the Walther in wood is not so ugly!

Cherrs

Neil

#10 Guest_TimP_*

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Posted 01 May 2002 - 11:18 AM

Neil

I'd be interested to read your thoughts on the rifles you have been shooting.
Keep us informed.

TimP

#11 Guest_NeilM_*

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Posted 02 May 2002 - 06:32 PM

Timp,
        latest in the new FT gun saga.

Had a side by side shoot of the EV2 and the LG100 FT today.

There is no real comparison that can be made between them.

The EV2 is very competent to shoot, pellet on pellet accurate, and very sleek looking.

I don't like the aesthetics of the still air, and I hate the hand index magazine.

Unfortunatley, I already own a top notch, super tuned Pro-T, so why do I want another one?

As a step up from an older 100 or 300 series, a superb bit of kit.

The Steyr LG, well heaven or what. However I think you need to be an FT shooter to fully apreciate some of what your getting.

Visually, I think it's going to be a love or hate thing.

One question Tim.

There appears to be a blow off valve on top of the bolt/ transfer port. This accounts for the puff of air you can feel when firing, and also I think,some of the noise.

What is it?

Is it adjustable?

I will have another chance to shoot both guns this weekend, and am really looking forward to that.

I hope the P70FT turns up on time, as I am going to have a tough wait, having played with the EV and LG.

Neil

#12 Guest_NeilM_*

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Posted 02 May 2002 - 06:39 PM

OOPS,

Just realised it's Tim G that knows about Steyr's not Tim P :0  :angry:  :0

Neil.

PS Still wnt to know about that Blowoff valve........ Anyone ???

#13 Guest_TimG_*

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Posted 02 May 2002 - 10:51 PM

Neil,

I think I know what you're asking.

With the bolt open, you can clearly see the transfer port surrounded by the O ring. With the bolt closed, there is a piece at the top front that moves - is this what you mean?

If so, this is the catch / release probe for the stabiliser system.
As air comes up through the transfer port, some air is used for the pellet and the rest for the stabiliser. This system ensures that the rifle is dead when fired, ie; does not lift or jet.

I hope this answers your question. If not, please give me more detail of what it is you mean and I will try to answer it as best I can.

Tim.

#14 Guest_NeilM_*

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Posted 03 May 2002 - 06:28 AM

HI Tim (s),
              yep, that's the kiddie.

I knew about the stabiliser, it is one of the most un-noticed, but effective features of the rifle. I did not realise it was air powered.

Very clever, and very good.

I will give you a call sometime to have a decent chat about the LG.

Cheers,
         Neil

#15 Matt

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Posted 08 October 2002 - 08:56 AM

Finally got to play with the factory P70 FT, well been using it for the past two - three weeks, all I can say is it's awesome.

Needs a few minor changes to it to really finish it off but for a factory rifle it is good, very good.

Matt

#16 Guest_ftchampion_*

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Posted 08 October 2002 - 01:20 PM

What makes it better than the rifles that are avaliable at the moment? (I.e Ripley and CR-X?)


#17 Matt

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Posted 08 October 2002 - 08:48 PM

Where do I start?

Trigger - can't compare any other rifle with the trigger of the Feinwerkbau, no matter how light it's set, it remains crisp and totally predictable.

Lock Time - Fastest lock time of any rifle I've ever shot.

Accuracy - Comparable to any production rifle you care to mention, it's also easier to repeat the accuracy due to the fast lock time.

Matt


#18 Guest_ftchampion_*

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Posted 09 October 2002 - 12:04 AM

QUOTE
Where do I start?

Trigger - can't compare any other rifle with the trigger of the Feinwerkbau, no matter how light it's set, it remains crisp and totally predictable.

The pro-target trigger is plenty good enough for FT. Will a lighter trigger than the one on the pro-target cause more targets to fall over? I don't think so. I know if I had a FWB trigger, I would try and set it as close to my current trigger setting as possible.

Lock time - Again the pro-t has a good lock time. Maybee its not as fast as the P70, but for FT is the difference noticable?

Accuracy - In my experience the accuracy of a PCP is completely dependant on the barrel. With a pro-t, you can get superb, good and bad barrels. Good barrels give good groups, bad barrels give big groups. I am sure the same stands with the P70.

To add to that, The regulator has not stood the test of time, and could start to cause problems. (unlike the pro-t reg which has prooved itself over years).

I therefore believe if I bought a P70 FT I would probably hit LESS targets than I do with the RN10 MK11 I have. Plus me and martyn hutchinson (well, just him really) Have worked on my rifle to get it shooting sweetly. Just recorded 70 consistent shots from a 165 bar fill! In my opionion that is pretty damn good, considering the 112 bar left in the cylinder). I don't think 12 ftlbs airguns can be improved much more in terms of accuracy.

(had a few beers tonight so if I have made some serious errors will try and fix tomorrow morning).
Peterh - if I have misconducted myself during this post - je suis desolle.
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#19 Matt

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Posted 09 October 2002 - 07:24 AM

I guess this is why you are an FTCHUMPION and the rest of us mere mortals.

I bow to your superior knowledge and experience biggrin.gif biggrin.gif .

Matt

#20 Guest_NeilM_*

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Posted 09 October 2002 - 08:08 AM

FT, calm down dude ohmy.gif

It's not a contest, it's just that Matt likes the FWB.

It is almost never the case that you change FT rifles for an improvement in performance. I have a NJR100, that will print one hole groups at 40 yards all day.

We boys like our toy's, and you therfore have to ask yourself not whether you NEED a new rifle, but do you DESERVE one.....of course you do.

Matt, fastest lock time, that's a big statement. Have you shot a Ripley, or a Steyr ?

I have had a look at the FWB, but not managed to shoot it yet, mainly due to the huge queue around the guy who owns it!! It looks very well made, but visually, it is a bit of a bitsa.

Rifles like the Steyr, Ripley, EV2 etc all look built for the purpose, the FWB, for all it's class, and stunning anodising, does look like something from the R&D lab.

Still, if it shoots well...who gives a toss. If we all shot the same thing, it would be very dull.

Matt, have the importers now pulled their fingers out, and accepted that there is air gun shooting other than 10m Match, going on out there, or did the one you have shot come in by another route?

Keep us informed please.

Neil cool.gif

#21 Guest_ftchampion_*

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Posted 09 October 2002 - 08:11 AM

yep, probably smile.gif

#22 Guest_ftchampion_*

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Posted 09 October 2002 - 08:31 AM

sorry, that was in response to Matt.
Neil, I did read somewhere the P70 has an extremely fast lock time becuase the is only somthing like 3mm for the hammer to travel before it hits the valve.

#23 Matt

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Posted 09 October 2002 - 08:41 AM

Neil,

Yes, have shot the Ripley and the Steyr and the CRX............ the FWB still feels the fastest by a long shot, not as quick as the 10 metre converted one I used to own though, probably due to that having a very short barrel?

The Steyr was built for a purpose, 10m match, so I wouldn't put it with the Ripley.

I have shot, one pre-production version, and 2 factory produced rifles as to wether the distributors have got there act together I don't know, they've possibly been let down by the manufacturer? Ask them.

By the way the one I used to own has been shot in all conditions, hot and cold torrential rain anybody remember the Grand Prix at the Scout camp? and it has yet to show any signs of movement.

Before anybody asks why I sold it if it was that good, I was going to get one of the new ones but they didn't arrive in time and the money was burning a hole in my pocket so I bought a Ripley. Luckily for me the two new ones, I have been using, have been bought by a guy in our club who'll let me use them whenever I want.

Matt



#24 Guest_ftchampion_*

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Posted 09 October 2002 - 08:51 AM

Just out of interest, when will the P70FT be out to own? tounge.gif

#25 Matt

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Posted 09 October 2002 - 09:01 AM

3 weeks ago!?


Matt

#26 Guest_NeilM_*

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Posted 09 October 2002 - 12:02 PM

Matt,
I'm a bit confused by your reply.

You had a FWB, and sold it to get a new FWB, but ended up with a Ripley, a dedicated FT gun.

You then say that the Steyr was built for 10m, and therefore cannot be compared to the Ripley. Then you say that the FWB is the donkey's as a FT gun.

Unless I'm wrong here, you are suggesting 10m guns, at full power, are no good for FT ? Have I got that right.

Also, match rifle shooters also want fast lock time, so why would the Steyr be worse, trigger wise, than the Ripley?

I used them as examples, because they both have fast actions. In fact, the Ripley is faster than the Steyr, but not by much.

Back to converted match rifles, I'm sure, as you extoll the virtues of the FWB, that you are not against converted match rifles, if you were, I would point you in the direction of the RN10 / Pro-Target, one of the most successful FT rifles ever. A match rifle, converted to FT by Nick Jenkinson, and adopted by Air Arms for production.

Still, if the FWB's are now available, you can sell your Ripley, and get a FWB.

I'll shoot one before I decide if it's better than my Pro-T, or Steyr LG100FT thanks.

Neil cool.gif

#27 Matt

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Posted 09 October 2002 - 01:20 PM

Neil,

I had been talking to Centra for ages, was told that the production rifles were to be made available May-June time ish. I can't remember when I bought the converted gun maybe Hotshot can remind me as I bought it from him.

Around the time that I heard the production guns were being made available someone at my club enquired about buying the converted gun so I sold it. Many months later the factory guns hadn't been made available so I bought a Ripley, have a nasty habit of when I've got money in my pocket I need to spend it. Regret not holding on a while longer but I've always said I wanted a Ripley.

I mis-read your statement about the Ripley and Steyr as though the Steyr was purposely designed as an FT gun, something it is not. By the way doo you have the factory converted Steyr or one by the many customisers?

Quote : "Unless I'm wrong here, you are suggesting 10m guns, at full power, are no good for FT ? Have I got that right." You're wrong as I shot my Anschutz for the team this year.

All the 10m guns are at an instant dis-advantage in that they are built, for a purpose, to be used inside not subjected to typical FT conditions, the FWB is the first I have used that doesn't appear to affected by temperature or inclement weather. Was anybody at the inter-regionals the other year when most of the Anschutz went down cos the rain had got inside?

Finally why sell the RIPPER when I can use a FWB without splashing the cash?!?

Matt

#28 Guest_peterh_*

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Posted 09 October 2002 - 02:32 PM

QUOTE (ftchampion @ Wed Oct 9 2002, 02:04)
[QUOTE]Where do I start?

Accuracy - In my experience the accuracy of a PCP is completely dependant on the barrel. With a pro-t, you can get superb, good and bad barrels. Good barrels give good groups, bad barrels give big groups. I am sure the same stands with the P70.

To add to that, The regulator has not stood the test of time, and could start to cause problems. (unlike the pro-t reg which has prooved itself over years).

I therefore believe if I bought a P70 FT I would probably hit LESS targets than I do with the RN10 MK11 I have.

Hehe.

In my experience, the accuracy of a good PCP is completely dependent on the SHOOTER.

Taking the shooter out of the equation, there's several other bits that can make a PCP with an excellent barrel to go completely haywire, as most any Anschutz 2020 shooter will be unhappy to tell you.

It appears to be as you say: with a Pro-T, you can get good and bad barrels. You may be sure that the same stands with the P70, but many FWB shooters WILL disagree with you on that one.

To add to that, the Pro-T regulator has proven a few things over time:
1. that the design is excellent (at least after they ironed out the initial problems)
2. that the thing still breaks down quite often, which in its Mk3 guise is solely attributable to the use of cheapo O-rings.
Substitute these with decent o-rings and they'll live as long as possibly a Welham reg.

There's one point at which I agree with you, and that is that you'd probably hit less targets with the P70 than you would with your own gun, but that is mainly because you're familiar with your own gun.

peter

#29 Guest_NeilM_*

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Posted 09 October 2002 - 04:21 PM

Hi Peter, hope your well.

Matt,
I have a factory gun, bought in my local shop, and supplied by the importer.
I am afraid the converted guns seem to be getting a bad reutation, although many are doing OK.

The Steyr is no more a converted Match rifle than the FWB. It has a completely different regulator. The only thing that would stop me using it at any time of year would be heavy rain, as the transfer port is exposed when the breech block is pulled back, and sods law tells me a big drop of rain would just plop in there.

You suggest that the FWB has been specifically designed for FT. I don't think so.

The breech cover assembly has been considerably shortened, to allow a scope to fit on top, and then a rather nasty plastic lever has ben bolted to it. The trigger assembly is hidden from view by the fore end. If the fore end is re-mounted on risers, to get more depth, then the trigger group is completely open.

The owner of the gun I've seen is a professional gunsmith, and he told me he had to contact FWB, in order to find out how to raise the power, as FWB had been a little cautious on power, even then he can get a max of 11.5 ft lbs, plenty I think, but not quite ready for the field if a gunsmith has to get inside.

I am not trying to sell Steyr's or knock FWB's, I just think praising a gun that has barely been seen is a little dangerous, and I think you have been slightly carried away with enthusiasm....which in itself is not bad thing.

I am very much looking forward to shooting an FWB, and once I have, I may join you.

Neil
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#30 Matt

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Posted 09 October 2002 - 08:17 PM

Neil,

The FWB is as I have said a factory converted gun, speak to the distributors if you want to hear what developments have gone into producing the rifle, you'll probably be suprised to hear how long the concept and pre-production models have been around, I know I was.

All I am praising is a gun that I have personal knowledge of and reporting on here what I have found out by using said gun. For me it is the most complete of the new match based guns available.

I am not saying it'll beat everything ever produced, just that if I had got the money available for one of these new guns then this is the one I'd go for.

Matt





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