Jump to content

AirGunForum uses cookies. Read the Privacy Policy for more info. To remove this message, please click the button to the right:    I accept the use of cookies

Photo

FAC air rifles .


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 holly

holly

    holly

  • Member
  • 10,586 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Isle of Wight
  • Interests:FT . archery . walking
  • Country:england
  • Region OR County OR State of residence:East london

Posted 29 March 2010 - 09:11 PM

hi up all . there is a bit of a debate going on . on the BFTA site proper , over whether you can or cannot take a FAC air rifle off ticket and use it in comps . anybody know what's what on the subject ??? HOLLY

#2 DaveB916

DaveB916
  • Member
  • 707 posts
  • Location:West Yorks.
  • Country:UK
  • Region OR County OR State of residence:West Yorks.

Posted 30 March 2010 - 09:24 AM

I think it depends on the force area you live in as to whether the Police will take an air rifle off fac or not ?

I have heard of rapids being taken off fac in one area and a blank refusal in others.

Dave B

#3 kent

kent
  • Member.
  • 965 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Forest of Bowland
  • Interests: Rifles and stalking from air to centrefires, Versitile hunting dogs GWP -the best! Flyfishing for wild fish fresh or saltwater. Wildfowling
  • Country:england
  • Region OR County OR State of residence:lancashire

Posted 30 March 2010 - 09:59 AM

I think the law is once a firearm always a firearm unless it is fully deactivated and inspected as such required by regulations, this could not be so with any gun that could still fired regardless of were the energy was sitting. You seem to get confusion and miseducation in firarms deptments because so few actually understand what they are talking about, being mearly on a cushy number desk job so i can understand they might have made mistakes in the past and will in future

#4 sg1

sg1

    Early Morning Admin(yawn!!)

  • Administrators
  • 1,938 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bognor Regis
  • Interests:Lightweight Sporting Rifle Competition Shooting,Clay Pigeon Shooting(ESP),Collecting Swords/Knives, Cooking , Computer Repairs and of course my Partner and our 3 kids.
  • Country:united kingdom
  • Region OR County OR State of residence:South coast, west sussex

Posted 30 March 2010 - 07:23 PM

As above, once a firearm, always a firearm as it is 'capable' of FAC levels??
Depends of Police force but I know round my way it's a no no!!

#5 apds120

apds120
  • Member
  • 160 posts
  • Country:england
  • Region OR County OR State of residence:london

Posted 02 April 2010 - 09:18 AM

Apparently it can be taken off fac if it is "remanufactured", don't ask what this entails as I haven't a clue but have heard of it being done.

#6 Guest_TH_*

Guest_TH_*
  • Guest

Posted 02 April 2010 - 05:21 PM

I think the way it is done is effectively the FAC gun is dismantled buy a authorised gunsmith so it is effectively no more. Then another gun is made that is at sub 12ftlb that just so happens to have most of the same parts the original gun had.

If your just on about shooting in air rifle events I suspect it would be up to the organises. Assuming you could bring that gun back down to under 12ftlb and had a open FAC and insurance I don't see why you could not. But sadly due to the claim culture probably most places would not risk it.


#7 robF

robF
  • Member
  • 3,187 posts
  • Location:Poole, Dorset

Posted 02 April 2010 - 08:34 PM

In my area my FEO is happy for an RFD to state that it's producing power under 12 and it will be taken off ticket. And they won't put one producing under 12 on ticket either.



#8 Rutty

Rutty
  • Member
  • 78 posts
  • Country:United Kingdom
  • Region OR County OR State of residence:Midlands

Posted 04 April 2010 - 07:27 PM

I am not an FT shooter so please excuse my input that might muddy the waters! Just suppose that you had an "open ticket" (not strictly relevant) and an Air Rifle on an FAC that had a variable power facility. If you adjusted the output to below 12 ft/lbs could you use it at an FT match? Subject of course to demonstrating that the power output was within the limit prior to commencing and having a seal placed on the adjustment control.

Rutty

#9 kent

kent
  • Member.
  • 965 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Forest of Bowland
  • Interests: Rifles and stalking from air to centrefires, Versitile hunting dogs GWP -the best! Flyfishing for wild fish fresh or saltwater. Wildfowling
  • Country:england
  • Region OR County OR State of residence:lancashire

Posted 04 April 2010 - 07:38 PM

QUOTE(Rutty @ Sun Apr 4 2010, 20:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am not an FT shooter so please excuse my input that might muddy the waters! Just suppose that you had an "open ticket" (not strictly relevant) and an Air Rifle on an FAC that had a variable power facility. If you adjusted the output to below 12 ft/lbs could you use it at an FT match? Subject of course to demonstrating that the power output was within the limit prior to commencing and having a seal placed on the adjustment control.

Rutty

I supose you should tecnically need to have a target shooting condition added if it was competitively scored (even an open ticket doesn't mean you can use it for anything only "the locations" you can use the gun are up to you), same as if you were using expanding ammo? Don't think most would bother and when i shot f/target many guns had power adjusters anyway so i cannot see why it would need sealing, if you were seen twiddling it i feel sure a mashal might say something. Anyhow it's pretty plain to spot an FAC gun traveling at faster than the 12ftlb guns when it hits a knock down biggrin.gif

#10 robF

robF
  • Member
  • 3,187 posts
  • Location:Poole, Dorset

Posted 04 April 2010 - 09:56 PM

QUOTE(Rutty @ Sun Apr 4 2010, 20:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am not an FT shooter so please excuse my input that might muddy the waters! Just suppose that you had an "open ticket" (not strictly relevant) and an Air Rifle on an FAC that had a variable power facility. If you adjusted the output to below 12 ft/lbs could you use it at an FT match? Subject of course to demonstrating that the power output was within the limit prior to commencing and having a seal placed on the adjustment control.

Rutty


Insurance and land owner permission would still be problematic.

Beyond that, Firearms law seems very open to interpretation by FEO's across the land, and what might pass in one region may not be allowed in the other. In short the easiest answer for now is to rule it out... if your rifle is on an FAC in GB then you can't shoot it in a BFTA comp ( i think that's what Roger has said on the BFTA site ).

Edited by robF, 04 April 2010 - 09:56 PM.


#11 Guest_TH_*

Guest_TH_*
  • Guest

Posted 08 April 2010 - 08:13 AM

QUOTE(Rutty @ Sun Apr 4 2010, 20:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am not an FT shooter so please excuse my input that might muddy the waters! Just suppose that you had an "open ticket" (not strictly relevant) and an Air Rifle on an FAC that had a variable power facility. If you adjusted the output to below 12 ft/lbs could you use it at an FT match? Subject of course to demonstrating that the power output was within the limit prior to commencing and having a seal placed on the adjustment control.

Rutty


Even if your shooting at 12ftlb a FAC gun is still a FAC gun. In so regular airgun insurance does not cover it. Its unlikely whatever insurance they had for a airgun event would cover a FAC rifle. You would also have to have a open FAC unless where you where shooting was a nominated spot on your FAC. Open and closed is only to do with where you can shoot. Closed has you limited to what is listed. Open you can shoot any place you can show is safe and you have the land owners consent.


#12 raygun

raygun
  • Administrators
  • 8,415 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bolton, Lancs
  • Interests:Airgunning
  • Country:U.K.
  • Region OR County OR State of residence:Bolton

Posted 11 April 2010 - 08:24 PM

What would be the position of a foreign competitor coming to the U.K to shoot FT and using his own rifle.

I'm presuming he comes from a E.U.Country with a rifle above 12 FPE but under a European Firearms Pass.
I understand that our people can't obtain such a Pass but also presume other Countries do issue them.

ATB
Ray.

#13 kent

kent
  • Member.
  • 965 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Forest of Bowland
  • Interests: Rifles and stalking from air to centrefires, Versitile hunting dogs GWP -the best! Flyfishing for wild fish fresh or saltwater. Wildfowling
  • Country:england
  • Region OR County OR State of residence:lancashire

Posted 11 April 2010 - 08:33 PM

QUOTE(TH @ Thu Apr 8 2010, 09:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Even if your shooting at 12ftlb a FAC gun is still a FAC gun. In so regular airgun insurance does not cover it. Its unlikely whatever insurance they had for a airgun event would cover a FAC rifle. You would also have to have a open FAC unless where you where shooting was a nominated spot on your FAC. Open and closed is only to do with where you can shoot. Closed has you limited to what is listed. Open you can shoot any place you can show is safe and you have the land owners consent.

Not quite but nearly. Closed often marked novice means you can only shoot on land inspected by any police firearms areas for the calibre you wish to use. Open often marked experianced means it's up to you to say were is safe you do not have to "show it is safe" though you do bear the responsibility however you must have lawfull authortity in both cases . Territorial restrictions might be placed on some certificates on occasions this is different from the whole open / closed certificate issue

#14 L-S-R

L-S-R
  • Member
  • 216 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:N. Ireland
  • Interests:FT, wildfowling and hunting.
  • Country:N.Ireland
  • Region OR County OR State of residence:Ardboe, Co.Tyrone

Posted 14 April 2010 - 08:06 PM

QUOTE(raygun @ Sun Apr 11 2010, 21:24) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What would be the position of a foreign competitor coming to the U.K to shoot FT and using his own rifle.
ATB
Ray.

I do it all the time, every year shoot the Euros at Weston.
Conor

#15 raygun

raygun
  • Administrators
  • 8,415 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bolton, Lancs
  • Interests:Airgunning
  • Country:U.K.
  • Region OR County OR State of residence:Bolton

Posted 14 April 2010 - 09:31 PM

QUOTE(L-S-R @ Wed Apr 14 2010, 21:06) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I do it all the time, every year shoot the Euros at Weston.
Conor


I know that Rob has worked very hard on the issue (or none issue) of the EFP in the mainland U.K.

It seems a contradiction that EFP's from overseas are accepted but there is still a refusal to issue them to mainland shooters who wish to shoot overseas.

ATB
Ray.

#16 rich

rich
  • Member,
  • 3,331 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Shebbear

Posted 14 April 2010 - 09:46 PM

Conor's rifle will also be on ticket (FAC) but under 12fpe if he is shooting the Euros. I thought the insurance most clubs have would not allow FAC (licensed) rifles on site.

#17 robF

robF
  • Member
  • 3,187 posts
  • Location:Poole, Dorset

Posted 15 April 2010 - 08:00 PM

QUOTE(raygun @ Wed Apr 14 2010, 22:31) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I know that Rob has worked very hard on the issue (or none issue) of the EFP in the mainland U.K.

It seems a contradiction that EFP's from overseas are accepted but there is still a refusal to issue them to mainland shooters who wish to shoot overseas.

ATB
Ray.


Well, i've don't a little nagging of my FEO, it did turn out to be hard work though biggrin.gif

#18 robF

robF
  • Member
  • 3,187 posts
  • Location:Poole, Dorset

Posted 15 April 2010 - 08:30 PM

QUOTE(rich @ Wed Apr 14 2010, 22:46) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Conor's rifle will also be on ticket (FAC) but under 12fpe if he is shooting the Euros. I thought the insurance most clubs have would not allow FAC (licensed) rifles on site.


NB, my personal opinion and mootings:

Just because it's a firearm in one country, doesn't make it one in another. But in GB, the line as to if an airgun is FAC is if it has an FAC in the GB.

Start asking insurance companies, FEO's, the HO, and the ACPO as to what if's, and I think you'll end up with several different answers, regionally varying, and probably in disagreement, with i should think some very teflon coated shoulders in between.



#19 KRW

KRW
  • Member.
  • 702 posts
  • Country:England
  • Region OR County OR State of residence:Yorkshire

Posted 18 April 2010 - 01:21 PM

interesting post on the BBS forum relating to barrel length

Section 7(2) of the Firearms (Amendment) Act, 1988 means that it is NOT possible to reclassify an air rifle from being a Section 1 air rifle to a non FAC air rifle by reducing its kinetic energy, if the barrel is rifled and the barrel length is less than 24

http://www.airgunbbs...ad.php?t=450349

http://www.opsi.gov....5_en_1#pb4-l1g7




#20 Guest_TH_*

Guest_TH_*
  • Guest

Posted 18 April 2010 - 10:47 PM

QUOTE(KRW @ Sun Apr 18 2010, 14:21) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
interesting post on the BBS forum relating to barrel length

Section 7(2) of the Firearms (Amendment) Act, 1988 means that it is NOT possible to reclassify an air rifle from being a Section 1 air rifle to a non FAC air rifle by reducing its kinetic energy, if the barrel is rifled and the barrel length is less than 24

http://www.airgunbbs...ad.php?t=450349

http://www.opsi.gov....5_en_1#pb4-l1g7


Nothing to stop it being dismantled stripped for parts though.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users